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» Smilin' Jack   » Specific Airline Discussions   » TWA   » Fleet size (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Fleet size
robw
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Since TWA LLC is going to be operated as a seperate company, I wonder about fleet plans.

Clearly fewer 767s are needed with TLV gone.

I count 19 or so DC-9s leaving the fleet fairly soon, and about 10 or so 717s coming on line.

Where will schedule cuts come from, if no new AC come on line? I know SJU is being scaled back.

Will the 717s increased utilization ability help offset the loss of about 10 AC?

Rob


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mikemd80
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The 717s do have enough increased utilization to cover the flying. There is also a very large schedule change coming in Sept to bring us more in line to AA's schedule. You folks also will be gaining some extra flying(caribbean, KOA) as an offset. See... who says the APA guys aren't gaining anything from this merger
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PITbeast
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Not sure where this fits so I'll put it here:

717 N426TW Line# 5083, Serial#55093 is scheduled for delivery on 9/20/01.

N2425A was scheduled to be delivered yesterday. Was it?


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B717FLYER
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Yes, aircraft 2425 is now in regular service.
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MaxEPR
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Mikemd80,

I don't think RobW is one of those " you folks " -- as in AA employee. He has posted on TWA topics for a long time; well before the merger.


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robw
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You are correct sir, I do not work for either TWA or AA.

Speaking of the fleet, I know some brand new 767s are coming to TWA. I assume this will not be a one for one switch with the existing 767s, most of which are relatively new. I saw a 767 at MCI getting its new paint (or lack thereof). Planes that are leaving, such as the DC-9s are not being stripped of paint nore are they getting the new cabin layout.

Additional 767s would be nice, since the two companies will continue to operate seperately foe several more years. Maybe 842/843 will get its 767 back.


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G4G5
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quote:
Originally posted by mikemd80:
The 717s do have enough increased utilization to cover the flying. There is also a very large schedule change coming in Sept to bring us more in line to AA's schedule. You folks also will be gaining some extra flying(caribbean, KOA) as an offset. See... who says the APA guys aren't gaining anything from this merger

What are you talking about? The LLC transfer process has begun. In 4 years all the routes will be flown by Silver aircraft and their will be no TWA. How long did you think that they would keep things seperate?


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shutupbeavis
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I heard the other day that the DC9's will be here until May '02. Anything official?beavis
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nyc6035
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Rob,

Bad news on the 842/843 front. As of I believe 10/1, SFO loses all it's TWA nonstops to JFK. AA picks up a pair in their schedule.


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Jeff Isenberg
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quote:
Originally posted by nyc6035:
Rob,

Bad news on the 842/843 front. As of I believe 10/1, SFO loses all it's TWA nonstops to JFK. AA picks up a pair in their schedule.


Mike -

I think you get the prize for overall number of flights (by a customer) on 842/843 over the past three years. Sorry to see its passing ....

Jeff I.


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PITbeast
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717 N2427A, Line #5084 Serial #55094 is scheduled for delivery on 9/27/01. That leaves only N428TW, N429TW, and N430TW to be delivered.
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PITbeast
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717 N428TW Line #5087, Serial #55095 is scheduled to be delivered 10/01/01.

(This is the second time today I've tried to post this info. It seems as if at least once a day a computer somewhere in the world has got to prove it's smarter than I am.)


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MrMarky
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Hi PITbeast--

Do you know if these latest 717 deliveries are in the new LLC/AA livery or in the beautiful TWA livery?

Also, my thanks again for your posts about these aircraft deliveries. You have been doing it for quite some time and I for one find it very interesting.

Marky


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PITbeast
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MrMarky: I don't know and have no way of finding out. B717FLYER can probably answer your question about the delivery livery. (Say that fast.) I'm guessing that if they do things down there pretty much as is done up here, the exterior paint is one of the last things done; therefore, new colors. But, again, I don't know. I do know that they've been dinking with the delivery schedule and N428TW no longer has a date for delivery.
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Insp4
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Robw----- Sorry, but that 767 at MCI, is a 757, getting a new AA/TWA paint job! Along with at least three MD-80's!And more to come!
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smilinjack
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As a matter of fact I am going to take a 757 to get the new livery over to MCI tonight from STL and bring the newly painted AA/TWA one back.

I think I will take my camera....


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Insp4
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Smilin'jac--- I hope the aircraft is ready for you! I haven't been working that Aircraft, but it looks close!!!! Have a good flight Capt!!!!!!
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DooDahDave
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A couple of trips ago I flew a FAA inspector, Maintenance type, to MCI and on the way over he said it was taking something like 2,500 man hours to buff off the old paint job and repaint each MD80. He said American uses some secret buffing compound that removes the paint but leaves the Alclad behind.

I got to fly one of the older planes that had gone through the process and it was even shinier than 9615! And no chromate left on the rivets! Nice job guys!

Dave


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LarryBoy
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A/C B717 2426 and up will be in the new livery.
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robw
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Are you all sure there was not a 767 getting the AA colors. Granted, I did not get too close, but I have been plane spotting long enough that it sure looked like a 767 to me. The height of the gear is a dead give away from the side, same with the nose.

Rob


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smilinjack
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I picked up 7508 and brought her to STL. I took a lot of pictures, however as it was night, most of them did not turn out so well.

[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: smilinjack ]


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robw
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It looks nice, but not as nice as the old livery.

Did the interior get a makeover as well? I am amazed at the beatings the interiors get. Some of the 757s are pretty torn up, and none are that old.


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TWAnr
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quote:
Originally posted by robw:
It looks nice, but not as nice as the old livery.

Did the interior get a makeover as well? I am amazed at the beatings the interiors get. Some of the 757s are pretty torn up, and none are that old.


Rob,

I have been on three 757s in the past couple of weeks. All of them had the new seating configuration (Less Room for Non Revs). Other than the noticeable improvement in the amount of legroom in the main cabin, there is no difference in the interiors. The first class cabin is unchanged.

From what I remember reading a few months ago in company communications, the lead time for the getting the news lavs, galleys and seats, to convert the interiors to mirror AA, can be as long as eighteen months. Once those changes are done, the planes will cross the fence and fly under AA's operating certificate.


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B-757-200
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quote:
Originally posted by TWAnr:
I have been on three 757s in the past couple of weeks. All of them had the new seating configuration (Less Room for Non Revs).

That should be AA's new catch-phrase: "More Room Throughout Coach---And Less Room for Non-Revs!"

If there ever was an airline that does'nt care about commuters or even attempting to assist non-revenue passengers/familes/buddies getting on flights---AA is it.They are without a doubt the most unfriendly airline when it comes to pass-riding or jumpseating.


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Insp4
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Robw---- Sorry, no 767's here at MCI !!!! I work hereevery day, and haven't seen one yet! What you saw, was Smilin Jack's 75, in the hanger! Up on jacks, from the tail end!Am I right!--- Easy mistake!
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TWAnr
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quote:
Originally posted by B-757-200:
That should be AA's new catch-phrase: "More Room Throughout Coach---And Less Room for Non-Revs!"

I disagree.

I got stuck in Denver last March. I had an ID 90, valid for UA only. I could not get on any of the UAL flights to LAX (15 per day), nor on TWA to STL. An AA agent accepted my ticket, saying that we are all soon to be one family, and even put me in first class. I'd probably still be stuck in DIA but for her kindness.


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B717FLYER
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quote:
Originally posted by TWAnr:
From what I remember reading a few months ago in company communications, the lead time for the getting the news lavs, galleys and seats, to convert the interiors to mirror AA, can be as long as eighteen months.

I just flew with an ALPA official who said the that costs associated with refitting TWA aircraft became so prohibitive that they're now going to just keep the fleets separate. Consider this information an official rumor.

AS


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Kirkpatrick
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quote:
Originally posted by B717FLYER:
I just flew with an ALPA official who said the that costs associated with refitting TWA aircraft became so prohibitive that they're now going to just keep the fleets separate. Consider this information an official rumor.

I hadn't heard that, but I heard that the new paint job is causing confusion for ground controllers who mistake them for AA aircraft. The rumor is they may go straight to the AA livery without the interim and use only the AA codeshare numbers. Anyone else hear this?


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cruisin
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It is not a rumor, they will stop painting a/c in the transitional livery dec.2 and all newly stripped a/c will be in the AA livery. Also as of dec. twa callsign will change to American .... system wide.Big changes coming sooner than later. by april 02 all a/c are suppose to be in AA colors. Pilots will be wearing AA uniforms by January. Its gunna be hard to tell AA from TWA.
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B-757-200
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirkpatrick:
The rumor is they may go straight to the AA livery without the interim and use only the AA codeshare numbers. Anyone else hear this?

Cruzin' is right, it's no rumour.All a/c after October will be painted with AA livery.

Ground and Tower controllers sometimes have to use phrases like:" TWA #123 in American colors, cross runway 12R at Golf", to keep from confusing themselves and other traffic.


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Super 80
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Guys,

I'm sorry if it has finally sunk in that TWA is gone. AMR bought you. How did you expect to remain? Now while AMR has been your savior, you'll quickly find that AMR has no downward loyalty to its employees.

I wish it were otherwise. Welcome to the Club.

Mark


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KarenLF
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Super 80
Pretty sad statement concerning AMR.
Hope it is not true.

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B717FLYER
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It's true. We are now part of a company that's constantly at war with it's employees. There's no mutual trust. We can only hope that it'll change some day...
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ALCOHOLIC
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quote:
Originally posted by cruisin:
Pilots will be wearing AA uniforms by January. Its gunna be hard to tell AA from TWA.

It will not be so hard. The TW guys will be the friendly ones. jussst kidding


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KarenLF
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Um........Pilots are not going to be the only ones wearing the AA uniform. We will be too!!!
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twaokc
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Um........Pilots are not going to be the only ones wearing the AA uniform. We will be too!!!

And that will be a sad day for all of the TWA employees and retirees...


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PITbeast
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717 Line# 5087, Serial# 55095, N428TW is now scheduled for delivery 10/31/01 and I don't know in what livery; probably the same as the two delivered the other day.
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PITbeast
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717 Line #5093, Serial #55096, N429TW is scheduled for delivery 11/21/01. No date has been posted yet for the delivery of N430TW which will be, sadly enough, the last aircraft delivered to TWA.
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PITbeast
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This just popped in the schedule:

N430TW, Line #5095, Serial #55097 is scheduled to be delivered 12/14/01.

And that will make it the last aircraft delivered to TWA.

[ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: PITbeast ]


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TWA Fan #1
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As a non-pilot I am wondering, will these aircraft retain their TW (for example, N540TW) designation after they are integrated into AA's fleet?

If yes I suppose they will be the last visible vestige of TWA for years to come.


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TWA Fan #1
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This group is obviously composed primarily composed of TWA employees.

I have read a few comments about AA's meanness to its employees vs TWA and thought you might like a passenger's perspective.

I am a super frequent flyer based in NYC. I absolutely loved TWA. Always on time or early. Always friendly and accomodating. TWA upgraded my wife and me on or honeymoon! That was the greatest.

As for AA I have always found the service amazingly unfriendly and unhelpful. Delays: In the past five years I have flown about 20 AA cross country flight. Only two arrived on time.

As for the vaunted frequent flyer program, although I'm a Platinum cardholder I never qualify for an upgrade and award tickets are next to impossible to book.

But if anything good can come of the integration of TWA into AA, maybe you wonderful folds of TWA can have an influence on the corporate culture of AA.

If so, it would be TWA's final triumph. I wish you all good luck, and hang in there!


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10229
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Sir;
Thanks for all the kind words.

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PITbeast
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Fan #1:
I believe there is a fee for changing a registration. (I think I once heard $50 but it's got to be more than that; nothing costs $50 anymore.) So if there is, in fact, a fee, the a/c registration becomes an subtle indicator of a particular airline's financial condition and or priorities.

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TWA Fan #1
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Pit Beast:

So would AA go ahead and change the registration (for examplae N540TW to N540AA) just to maintain its corporate image?


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PITbeast
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Don't know. What they did with the aircraft from Reno and AirCal would probably answer your question.
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redhdFLL
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The 8 737-300's from AirCal were re-registered with AA.The -200's kept the AC registration. From what I remember when I flew them out of SJC in 89-90.
redhdFLL

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TWA Fan #1
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What If?

Just imagine if TWA had survived to September 11th.

I wonder if the Federal bailout package would have spared the airline by allowing it to pay off some of its long-term debt and restucture its expensive aircraft leases?


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N738FZ
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quote:
Originally posted by TWA Fan #1:
What If?

Just imagine if TWA had survived to September 11th.

I wonder if the Federal bailout package would have spared the airline by allowing it to pay off some of its long-term debt and restucture its expensive aircraft leases?


Okay, let's not kid ourselves. TWA was the #8 airline, it share of the money wouldn't have been that huge. If AAL hadn't come along, and TWA somehow managed to eke it out until 9/11, those events would've been the nail in the coffin, I'm sad to say. We would've ceased operations within a week, I'd imagine.


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Life_Platinum
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Re changing tail numbers. I once heard that the fee to change the tail number was something like $15 or $20 and then $5 per engine. The cost of completing the necessary paper work far exceeded the financial cost of re-registering the new tail number with the government.
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PITbeast
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From what I can glean from the Master Aircraft File: AA's MD-80s all are registered in the US (Nxxxx). The 'N' is followed by either 3, 4, or 5 numbers. In some cases the numbers are not followed by an alpha character. Where there is an alpha character following the number it is either 'A', 'AA', 'AM', 'AN', or 'TW".
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