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Author Topic: TWA Livery Update
gambit3131
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As of 12/10/01:

Total TWA A/C: 139
TWA LLC interim livery: 36
AA livery: 5

Source: JETWIRE FOR TUESDAY, DEC. 11, 2001

gambit


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robw
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Hey Gambit:

I sort of wish they would paint all of the planes and get it over with. I cn't stand watching the slow demise of our favorite airline.

I love all aviation, so it was kind of neat to fly on a 757 in the interim colors. Overall, it was sad.

Did I post earlier that we had a great speach by our Service Manager, Ms. Hale. I recognized her from earlier Europe flights. She announced that for the crew this would be the last TWA flight from England for them (I believe the actual last TWA flight out of LGW was the next day) and there would probably be some tears. We already had to check in at an AA counter, and went to the Admirals Club. Everything was AA except the plane and crew.

Our STL-SFO flight had the same sad feeling.

Worse was taking my Dad to SFO the next Saturday. Crews were tearing down the TWA signs as fast as they could. Overnight, one would never know TWA had ever existed at SFO.

Getting back to subject, I hope they hurry the rest of the changeover, the slow death is too sad.


One final note, the AA ground crew seemed overly sensitive and nice. The AA platinum card probably helped, but I think the AA folks knew there were long term TWA fliers, who had chosen TWA over the other airlines over the years, and I think they genuinely wanted to please us.

Enough of my ramblings for tonight.

ROb


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Kenneth
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I went by the TW counter at PHL on 11/30 to say goodbye.

Last Sunday I went by the AA counter (4 terminals away) and didn't recognize anyone. The folks that were there though, were pretty nice. They worked with me for a while to resolve ticketing my flight home for the holidays - cashing in a TWA voluntary denied-boarding voucher from a few months ago. Prior to 12/2 I couldn't get it ticketed anywhere - each side though the other was supposed to handle it!

Hopefully I'll see a few familiar faces at the AA counters soon, mixed in with the others. I'm still wearing my TW pin on my jacket when I check in.

Ken


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MrMarky
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Howdy Gambit!

Just wondering--you say there's a total of 139 TWA aircraft. Let's see, 103 MD-80's, and 27 757's makes 130. Then you have 30 717's and 9 767's. So of 169 aircraft 30 have disappeared? To the desert? How many of which type? If I'm correct about them going to the desert, I assume this was a result of 9/11?

Thanks for the update. Good to hear from you.

Marky


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FlyAA777
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Just flew through STL tonight...my first interim colored a/c. Really no difference on the 757, although the TWA on the tail was almost completely peeled off! Anyone know if the TWA logos are just stickers? The a/c was 703...


The 30 a/c missing are the DC9s!

There do seem to be many a/c just sitting around though. Last week at MCI ~10, and tonight in STL 12ish.


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Kirkpatrick
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quote:
Originally posted by FlyAA777:
The 30 a/c missing are the DC9s!

103 MD80's plus 27 757's plus 30 717's plus 9 767-300's make 169 without the DC-9's.


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Adnan ILyas
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The below info is from our DEC bid package, the date the info was retrieved is 11/30/01.
own Mntc Spare Aval Sched Unasgnd
tot 767 9 2 2 5 5 0
tot 757 27 3 1 23 22 1
tot s80 103 10 3 90 88 2
tot 717 29 3 1 25 18 17
tot dc9 0 0 0 0 0 0
system
total 168 18 7 143 133 10

One more 717 to be delivered at the end of DEC, with a grand total of 169 aircraft for TWA LLC.
Also a note if AA wants to get rid of the 717, then according to the contract signed with Boeing, they can only get rid of 2 a/c per quarter. So if a drawdown of the 717 is coming, then it will take a long time at the rate of 8 aircraft/year.


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gambit3131
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quote:
Originally posted by MrMarky:
Howdy Gambit!

Just wondering--you say there's a total of 139 TWA aircraft. Let's see, 103 MD-80's, and 27 757's makes 130. Then you have 30 717's and 9 767's. So of 169 aircraft 30 have disappeared? To the desert? How many of which type? If I'm correct about them going to the desert, I assume this was a result of 9/11?

Thanks for the update. Good to hear from you.

Marky


MrMarky,

I don't know what happened to the other 30 aircraft. I check from the report last week and it also stated 139 total aircraft. hmmmm.

gambit


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Jeff Isenberg
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quote:
Originally posted by gambit3131:

MrMarky,

I don't know what happened to the other 30 aircraft. I check from the report last week and it also stated 139 total aircraft. hmmmm.

gambit


I heard the 30 were part of Gitner's golden parachute package. Apparently, he is looking to start a new airline called PME (People's Missouri Express) so that he can fulfill his ultimate dream of having a low-cost airline serving the great state of Missouri and its environs. Of course, this was his great hope for TWA until he sold them out to the lowest bidder .....

Jeff I.


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TWARETIRED97
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Jeff, why would Gintner care about Missouri, isn't he a New Yorker ? Or was your reply tongue in cheek
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Kirkpatrick
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quote:
Originally posted by gambit3131:

I don't know what happened to the other 30 aircraft. I check from the report last week and it also stated 139 total aircraft. hmmmm.


Could it be they're only counting the ones they intend to paint? I know they don't intend to change the 767's, although I swear I've seen silver 717's in STL.


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Jeff Isenberg
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quote:
Originally posted by TWARETIRED97:
Jeff, why would Gintner care about Missouri, isn't he a New Yorker ? Or was your reply tongue in cheek

TWARETIRED97 -

Actually, Gitner lives in Short Hills, NJ. And yes .... my comment was flippant and sophomoric. Although .... as I recall .... many of you TWA'ers used to flippantly refer to the shrinking TWA as TMA (or Trans Missouri Airlines) after Gitner and others started retrenching to STL.

Jeff I.


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donuway
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Isenberg:

TWARETIRED97 -

Actually, Gitner lives in Short Hills, NJ. And yes .... my comment was flippant and sophomoric. Although .... as I recall .... many of you TWA'ers used to flippantly refer to the shrinking TWA as TMA (or Trans Missouri Airlines) after Gitner and others started retrenching to STL.

Jeff I.


Jeff,

Any idea when Gittner came to TWA?? I'm too busy, and lazy, to look it up. Jeff, you are always harping on the retrenching to STL. It now seems as though STL was one of the most prized parts of the purchase. Of course that's for what it is,, an ideal Mid-Continent connecting hub, perfect for shuttling people around the heartland for the same price as a transcon quite often, shuffling them out to coastal international hubs, and also with the ability to handle certain international destinations in itself. Frontier does something like that, less the international part, and is doing very well, with TWAs old yield guy in the mix even.

Was it 96?? 800 blew up, Erickson left, and Bill Compton,according to his speech after 222, came into management. I remember him saying that Saturday that management sat down then, and tried to figure out what they could do with no unencumbered assets and 300?? million in cash. I believe he stated 3 things they could do,(safe, reliable, clean, I believe),,,and none of them included making money. I remember clearly Bill Compton NEVER stated when TWA would return to profitability. It makes you wonder if it was in the plan?

It has been stated that Bill Compton moved into COO, CEO when no one else wanted to, and Erickson reportably left due to differences with the BOD. What were those differences? Did the BOD finally realize that Karabu was a huge mistake? Did they just say, "screw it, there is no way to make this company profitable, our only hope is to fix operational problems, and groom it for a buyout? What topnotch airline CEO type would step up to this type of challenge, or should I say lack of challenge? IMO, "shrinking to STL" was recent managements only idea on how to run from Karabu, yet run an airline that looked operationally good.

These are all questions that could be answered in Professor Isenbergs upcoming class,,what was it??,, "How to run an airline into the ground 101"? Need a teachers aide?

I think I'm off topic!

Don

[ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: donuway ]

[ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: donuway ]


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Jeff Isenberg
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Don -

Geez .... where do I begin. Oops .... I can't begin right now as I have to rush off to a Xmas party. I'll look back over my lecture notes and try to address at least some of the issues you have brought up.

As to your comments on STL, I always maintained that STL is a great location for a main hub. If they had fixed up Lambert and expanded, it would have really been good. The key word in my harping, though, was "retrenchment." STL should have been a "key" hub, not the "only" hub for an airline with the scope and cost of TWA.

Jeff I.


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MrMarky
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Hi Don,

I believe Gitner came to TWA in the early 90's when Uncle Carl left the premesis. He was CEO and Chairman until Compton became CEO. I also believe he came from People Express if I remember right.

As for the STL hub retrenchment, I think they had problems making JFK work because of the IAM, Hanger 12, etc among other things. Once they started dumping the European routes, there really wasn't much left for JFK to do, so they started eliminating domestic feed into JFK as well.

Sadly, in their much weakened state, they began the focus city program and I think given their resources that was really a brilliant strategic move. SJU seemed to be quite successful, and LAX was beginning to look the same way. Worst of all, we can no longer do betting pools for what the next focus city would be. I still say MCI.

One more thought. Since AA refused to continue the sponsorship for the STL Trans World Dome, where those scumbag Rams beat my wonderful 49ers last weekend, I understand the dome is now among many around the country looking for a sponsor. That has suddenly become a buyers market, and nobody is buying anywhere.

So I was thinking. Maybe the city of STL should make AA a sponsorship offer they can't refuse -- rename it the "Chrome Dome".

That dumb little joke just now crossed my mind as I was writing about Gitner.

Take care,

Marky


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robw
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When analyzing JFK do not forget uncle Carl, who filed hundreds if not thousands (when the 747s were still flying)of seats per day to the Middle East and Europe for next to nothing. I think this was a barely tolerable situation when fuel was cheap.

What a decision to make...lose money for prestige and convenience of some loyal passengers (I have always said SOME loss leaders have to be kept to keep a viable system intact(, or cut the flights to save money, but perpetuate the image of a failing airline.

Its all academic now.

Rob


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Kenneth
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Just came home from LAX today ... it was nice to see a TW in the 'pre-interim' colors taxi down the way.

Back in PHL, it looks like National is now using TW's Gate E8 ... they previously were sharing Northwest's gate further up the terminal. ATA is also using E8 but they had been previously.

Flying to STL this coming Friday, waiting to see what type of plane I'll have ... still haven't been lucky enough to board a 717, though that plane had been thrown onto the PHL-STL run a few times. Also waiting to see if there'll be any familiar faces at the AA counters - though I did meet a couple of friendly agents there about a week ago.

Happy holidays all ... Ken


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mioguido
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mycatiscalvin....your wait getting on a 717 will be worth it! i had my first ride in a 717 a few weeks ago, and i'm still smilin'. very nice aircraft (imo).
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pomonastudent
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Looking forward to the "Dirt Cheap" Dome, after the local liquor store...
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Kenneth
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In honor of the Rams, why don't they go after Ringling Brothers as a sponsor?

(the Greatest Show on Earth dome ??)


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gambit3131
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirkpatrick:
although I swear I've seen silver 717's in STL.

Yes, there are silver 717's. I do not know how many. I know at least one.

What is strange. As I was flying into STL yesterday afternoon, I noticed at least seven 717 aircraft sitting on the ramp by SGOC. Or should I now say "American Airlines Operations Center" (my old office )

gambit


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B717FLYER
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It's not such a strange sight anymore, sad as it is. The January fleet plan still has 12 717 unassigned for the month. Of course they rotate individual ships in and out of service. Many of the previous 717 routes are now being flown by MD80s and it's really too many seats.
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PITbeast
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N430TW was scheduled to have been delivered last Friday. Was it? If so, what was it's livery?
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B767300ER
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quote:
Originally posted by mycatiscalvin:
In honor of the Rams, why don't they go after Ringling Brothers as a sponsor?

Hey! You're talking about the next Super-Bowl champs!


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TWAnr
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quote:
Originally posted by gambit3131:

I don't know what happened to the other 30 aircraft. I check from the report last week and it also stated 139 total aircraft. hmmmm.

All it took was the passage of time for the answer to come to light.

Here is the latest update:

quote:

--TWA TO AA LIVERY UPDATE AS OF JAN. 22--
Total A/C: 136
TWA LLC interim livery: 30
AA livery: 20
Jetwire will update these numbers weekly.

Did anyone else notice how the total number of aircraft went down from 139 to 136 in that period of time?


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Kenneth
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quote:
quote:
------------------------------
Originally posted by mycatiscalvin:
In honor of the Rams, why don't they go after Ringling Brothers as a sponsor?

------------------------------

Hey! You're talking about the next Super-Bowl champs!


Don't worry, I'll be cheering for the Rams this weekend ... doesn't make me very popular at work though! My office is just 5 miles from Veterans Stadium.

On a related note, I'll probably miss the first half. I'm in Houston tomorrow night till Thursday and then on to McAllen TX for the rest of the weekend ... my father (St. Louis native) retired there a few years back. My return flight via DFW doesn't get me in until 6pm.

PS, I tried to take the TWE (er, American Connection) flight from STL to McAllen, but it doesn't seem to be offered anymore, only via DFW. Looks like I'll be seeing the folks there pretty frequently this week (Wed, Thu and Sun) ... haven't been through there in a long time.

Good luck Rams!

Ken


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donuway
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quote:
Originally posted by TWAnr:

Did anyone else notice how the total number of aircraft went down from 139 to 136 in that period of time?


Why do you think we keep you around here? We need a sleuth to keep up on these things.

Don


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