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Author Topic: If I had the money
Subsonic Transport
Post Captain
Member # 2139

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If I had the money, this is what I would want to do with it, in three stages.

Stage One:
I would walk out into the dessert sun and find myself the most flyable TWA DC-9-10. Purchase it. Organize a group of individuals to restore it as necessary to fly it outta there.

Restore it to its fully operational capability under the most recent logo and enter into the airshow circuit. Touring ex-TWA cities first and then......wherever!

Stage Two:
After gaining experience with the DC-9, I would walk out into the dessert sun and find the most flyable ex-TWA 727. I haven't decided whether a -100 or a -200. I like them both. Logo is negotiable. I like them all! Return it to flying status and start the airshow circuit as well. Perhaps extending the tour into Europe.

Stage Three:
After gaining considerable experience with the a/c above, I would again, walk out into the dessert sun and find the most flyable 747. Probably 17108 if it's still around. Restore it and enter that into the airshow circuit. But, the first flight will operate as follows: Kansas City-St.Louis-New York[JFK] and then to Paris.

This first flight will be in memory of all those lost on TW800, all the families of those lost, all people associated with search and rescue, and anybody else who cares. The flight will arrive in Paris on the first day of the Paris Airshow with the DC-9 and 727 in trail.

If I had the money.


Posts: 498 | From: Buffalo, NY  |  IP: Logged
TWA Fan 1
Post Captain
Member # 1926

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If I had the money...

I would buy TWA LLC back from AA, including the STL gates, the remaining aircraft leases, all the people (and the retiree liabilities too, of course).

AA has just lost $3.5 billion and STL isn't working for them, I'm sure they'd be willing to raise some quick cash.

For my new TWA, I would renovate STL and JFK T5, acquire LHR and Asia routes...

I would appoint Randy Kramer to the Board of Directors...

If I had the money... (who has that kind of money?)

Just imagine, TWA all over again without the $1 billion ball and chain of debt...we'd make as much money as SWA!


Posts: 400 | From: Brooklyn, NY  |  IP: Logged
Goodyear_26
Post Captain
Member # 304

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Wow!! If I had the money I would do all of the proposals in these messages.

I would also give Bill Gates another opportunity to get into the Airline sinkhole!!

But my biggest expenditure would be to buy out Carl Icahn and send him to the largest, smelliest garbage dump in the world. He has ruined so many lives it's amazing that he still walks on the face of the earth!!!!

[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: Goodyear_26 ]

[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: Goodyear_26 ]


Posts: 103 | From: Tampa, FL, USA  |  IP: Logged
TWA Fan 1
Post Captain
Member # 1926

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quote:
Originally posted by Goodyear_26:
Wow!! But my biggest expenditure would be to buy out Carl Icahn and send him to the largest, smelliest garbage dump in the world. He has ruined so many lives it's amazing that he still walks on the face of the earth!!!

Goodyear_26:

No need to spend a penny on Icahn. He may be rich with money he plundered by ruining the lives of tens of thousands of people, but being Carl Icahn is enough of a punishment in of itself.

Carl Icahn's garbage dump is his conscience and he has to live with it every day.


Posts: 400 | From: Brooklyn, NY  |  IP: Logged
donuway
Post Captain
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Well..if you read the "End" thread,,,it looks as though the way to get this industry reorganized is to start new companies,,,,if that thread has merit to it.

But it appears as though the last two are doing it WITHOUT money. United trying to sart totally over??... Delta with a new startup. Wonder where that money will be siphoned from? JetBlue and AirTran new or fairly newly reorganized companies.

As has been mentioned before,,,,I think the passengers are out there, and you need so many people to fly them,,,,but it's a shame everyones employment security has to be topsy-turvy in this industry.


But is it just the labor savings that will do it? It's not hard to figure. What's AAs loss per year now? What's total labor cost? What percentage of labor cost is the loss?

I'm sure the pension funding is a major factor in the newer vs. the older companies, although it shouldn't be. If it was managed properly,,,and the newer companies are funding for the long haul, there should be an equal per-hour cost per employee. More senior employees cost more in vacation, and maybe hourly pay,,but the training cost should be lower.

Then again,,,when you fly on a plane,,,you dont see that many employees actually servicing you. I would bet the employee per passenger ratio is lower on the startups than the majors. What did we hear about TWA in Europe? Something about 100+ employees at a station that handled 400 or less passengers a day?

Don


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Life_Platinum
Post Captain
Member # 630

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TWA Fan 1. Glad to hear of your plan to bring TWA back to its glory days. I wondered how grandiose your plan is, and when your airline was fully functional, how extensive would it be in relation to TWA of previous years? Were you planning to buy back the ORD-LHR and JFK-LHR routes from AA, along with a number of 777s to service the routes? Were you also planning to buy back the Around The World routes that TWA gave up when they stuck a deal with Pam Am? If you bought these AA 777s, which TW livery would you have on them? How would you outfit the TWA employees?

With Captain Randy on the Board, your company would surely succeed.


Posts: 210 | From: New York, New York  |  IP: Logged
TWA Fan 1
Post Captain
Member # 1926

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quote:
Originally posted by Life_Platinum:
TWA Fan 1. Glad to hear of your plan to bring TWA back to its glory days. I wondered how grandiose your plan is...If you bought these AA 777s, which TW livery would you have on them? How would you outfit the TWA employees?

With Captain Randy on the Board, your company would surely succeed.


Plan is definitely grandiose. It would have to be for the resuscitated TWA to survive (remember the STL single hub failure?).

Although the airline would rehire the TWA people and capture the airline's unique spirit it would definitely be a contemporary product (thus no Pan Am around the world route, for example).

I like the idea of buying the AA 777s. Hey, they're losing gobs of money and they could use the cash. Livery would be final TWA colors with a cheapo AA decal on the tail that would start peeling off in a few weeks.

As far as TWA uniforms, in the spirit of the 60s glory days of TWA (Saarinen, Pierre Cardin, Eames) we would hire a hot new designer to design the airline's new look.

In all seriousness, though, I think we can look back on the final days of TWA and marvel at how well the airline was operating given its dire financial situation. One might even venture to say that given the handicap of a billion or so dollars of debt TWA was in fact one of the best managed airlines in the business.

Do you really think that AA, with all of its supposed management acumen, could have done any better given such a crushing debt load?

Again, TWA's performance remains a stellar tribute to its amazing people...

[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: TWA Fan 1 ]


Posts: 400 | From: Brooklyn, NY  |  IP: Logged
Life_Platinum
Post Captain
Member # 630

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TWA Fan 1: TWA also attracted the most fanatically loyal flyers. Many of us would fly bizarre routes just to fly TWA. Many of us would connect thru the STL hub on TWA rather than fly a nonstop on another carrier. Many of us would pay outrageous fares and all non-Karabu fares as a measure of our loyality to TWA employees. And for these minor inconveniences, we were rewarded with the finest service in the skies for so many years despite overwhelming odds.

Since TWA's demise, I have not enjoyed flying as much as I did on TWA. I don't see how I ever will enjoy flying as much again.


Posts: 210 | From: New York, New York  |  IP: Logged
TWA Fan 1
Post Captain
Member # 1926

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quote:
Originally posted by Life_Platinum:
TWA Fan 1: TWA also attracted the most fanatically loyal flyers. Many of us would fly bizarre routes just to fly TWA. Many of us would connect thru the STL hub on TWA rather than fly a nonstop on another carrier. Many of us would pay outrageous fares and all non-Karabu fares as a measure of our loyality to TWA employees. And for these minor inconveniences, we were rewarded with the finest service in the skies for so many years despite overwhelming odds.

Since TWA's demise, I have not enjoyed flying as much as I did on TWA. I don't see how I ever will enjoy flying as much again.


It sounds like you and I must have been separated at birth!

I always went out of my way to fly TWA. On numerous occasions I connected through STL when I could have flown another carrier non-stop. I never, ever booked Karabu

Although I could have used the Ambassadors Club for free with my Amex Platinum I spent the money every year for the membership.

And yes, the service was fantastic. I've been trying for some time to articulate what was so special about it. On the surface, of course, it was the impeccable professionalism of the people.

But I think it was deeper than that: There was a certain grace, a certain class (personnified by Randy Kramer) that was virtually completely out of step with the modern American airline experience, the assembly-line approach that always made me feel as little more than balast on the seat.

Do I miss TWA? Although it strikes me as a little silly, I really do. Very much.

That's why, if I had the money, I would resuscitate it...

Just imagine: Mogul purchases TWA. Money from Sale Saves AA From Bankruptcy (that would be the ultimate irony)

Oh well, I can always dream...

[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: TWA Fan 1 ]


Posts: 400 | From: Brooklyn, NY  |  IP: Logged
PITbeast
Post Captain
Member # 108

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If you had enough money would you recreate the PIT Ambassador Club with the East Africa decor? Does anybody know what happened to the stuffed Cape Buffalo head?
Posts: 232 | From: Mount Olive, NC  |  IP: Logged
extwacaptain
Prop Wash
Member # 381

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Subsonic Transport,

When you reach Stage Two and walk into the desert searching for the 727, if you would like a partner, (an older one) it would be a pleasure to accompany you.

Be forewarned that all (EVERY) TWA 727’s have the unmistakable fragrance of fine cigars, still lingering from those wonderful days of the past. If the salesman tells you “this airplane has never been smoked in,” don’t believe him.

As a matter of fact, cigar smoking really added to the joy of flying. Although our policy manual prohibited smoking in view of our passengers, we had a macho V/P of flight operations who enjoyed them as much as that fella in Cuba. (This made it easy to overlook the no-smoking rule)

You may be able to locate a DC-9 lacking the cigar smell. That plane came along about the time ladies decided to enjoy cigar smoking and there weren’t enough to go around for the pilots.

The Old Guy with a Gray Moustache


Posts: 1157 | From: Encino, Ca. U.S.A.  |  IP: Logged
TWA Fan 1
Post Captain
Member # 1926

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quote:
Originally posted by PITbeast:
If you had enough money would you recreate the PIT Ambassador Club with the East Africa decor? Does anybody know what happened to the stuffed Cape Buffalo head?

Sounds like a great idea.

Our new TWA could probably end up buying the PIT gates at the US Airways liquidation...


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donuway
Post Captain
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To all of those wanting to bring TWA back to life,,,,,,

There was an interesting article in todays STL Post Dispatch. Guess where it stated the real profits are being made,,,at least until Bush presses the War button? TRANS-ATLANTIC! A little different than what we heard prior to the BK. Of course unprofitable stations can turn profitable routes into unprofitable ones.

So maybe get a code share with some good domestic carriers. Think out of the box. Don't go to the "major" majors, go to the smaller ones, Jet Blue, Airtran, Frontier, Alaska, etc. You concentrate on making it Trans WORLD Airlines.

IMO, Mr. Carty has TWA name rights locked up in his own personal desk though.

Oh,,,,the article also said AA stated they would increase international flying and domestic would remain flat. Not cut,,but flat. In order to remain flat, if you are cutting service in say STL,,,you must be adding it somewhere?

Don


Posts: 414 | From: St. Louis, Mo  |  IP: Logged
Jeff Isenberg
Post Captain
Member # 421

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Don -

I had also read a couple articles the past few days about profits to be had in the transatlantic market. How things change in the matter of a few years.

Having said that, I'll continue in my equivocal assessment of where TWA might have been headed under Compton. He had indicated to me that part of TWA's thinking included keeping some of the major stations that they had closed (FRA, ATH, MAD,FCO, etc.) for the five-year period required by European law that would have then freed them to reopen without being obliged to retain the bloated head count. In fact, FRA was nearing that 5-year timeframe and probably would have been the first to reopen with flights from BOTH JFK and STL. In the meantime, TWA had been planning a JFK-Manchester flight for either 2001 or 2002. It could have been an interesting development and, in this area, I give Compton high marks for breaking away from the stodgy (and losing) strategy of mAArky's seatmate last month.

Jeff I.


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Subsonic Transport
Post Captain
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When you reach Stage Two and walk into the desert searching for the 727, if you would like a partner, (an older one) it would be a pleasure to accompany you.

I'll take that as a compliment and call you if I ever get there. A side from getting the money, someone will have to "slap" Carty around a little bit to wrestle loose the operating certificate.

As far as smoking is concerned? I'm not a smoker but you can always open the window a crack while you're driving.


Posts: 498 | From: Buffalo, NY  |  IP: Logged
ss278
Post Captain
Member # 244

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quote:
Originally posted by extwacaptain:

Be forewarned that all (EVERY) TWA 727’s have the unmistakable fragrance of fine cigars, still lingering from those wonderful days of the past. If the salesman tells you “this airplane has never been smoked in,” don’t believe him.

As a matter of fact, cigar smoking really added to the joy of flying. Although our policy manual prohibited smoking in view of our passengers, we had a macho V/P of flight operations who enjoyed them as much as that fella in Cuba. (This made it easy to overlook the no-smoking rule)



Captain Randy,

Now I know why those TWA 727's were always a favorite! I was trying to explain the joys of a good cigar (and a single-malt or fine port) to a very well known television personality I had the pleasure of sitting next to while flyng American JFK-LAX on Friday. She understood the scotch but no effort on my part could convince her of the value of the cigar. Oh well......

My Saturday meeting in LA was put on hold after the awful shuttle tragedy. I had a couple of hours to pass before my flight home so I went over to the airliner expo at the Hacienda. Managed to pick up a few TWA and Pan Am "finds" and thought (with luck) I might see you there, but obviously didn't. So I just went over to In & Out, watched the landings, had a quick lunch and said a few quiet prayers.

Maybe next trip.

Jack M.


Posts: 199 | From: Salt Lake City, Utah USA  |  IP: Logged
Goodyear_26
Post Captain
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Had another thought on this "If I had the money" thread.

It seems that Time Warner can drop $100B with nary a ripple. How about if they could find another couple of billion and offer it to DC for the LLC. And they don't have to change any names. Time Warner/AOL still equates to TWA!

Oh well, back to the drawing board.


Posts: 103 | From: Tampa, FL, USA  |  IP: Logged


 
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