quote:

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Originally posted by TWAnr:
American Airlines has notified the APFA that 355 flight attendants will be furloughed as of April 1, 2003 and an additional 395 effective May 1, 2003. These lay offs will hit as deep as 1975 seniority.

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And I'm sure we are talking LLC here. With this hitting the papers soon,,,I wonder what kind of picture Mr. Carty will paint next week in STL?

What can one say when so many lives are affected?

quote:

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Originally posted by donuway:

And I'm sure we are talking LLC here.

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Unfortunately, we are.

quote:

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Originally posted by nyc6035:
I can not believe that they're going back all the way to 1975. If ever there were an example of how this integration was not fair and equitable this is it. 28 years of service deserves better than this.

To add insult to injury I'm sure this means the TWA (llc) MD80s are going directly over the fence without cabin crew, right?

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Couldn't agree more, This old teamster never spent too much time trying to figure the whole "fence" thing, but I thought it would have afforded more protection than it did?

Unless they are going to cut more into the flights in STL, they will have to be using AA metal to make some of the STL routes work. So where do all of the planes go that these FAs worked? Are some of the LLC planes being recertified to AA already? Then what happens to the pilots? I thought bringing in AA metal on TWA routes would be in violation of any "fence" rules?

quote:

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Originally posted by nyc6035:
To add insult to injury I'm sure this means the TWA (llc) MD80s are going directly over the fence without cabin crew, right?

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quote:

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Originally posted by donuway:

Are some of the LLC planes being recertified to AA already? Then what happens to the pilots? I thought bringing in AA metal on TWA routes would be in violation of any "fence" rules?

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Beginning in March, TWA LLC MD80s will be crossing the fence at the rate of three a month, without cabin crews or first officers. Forty two airplanes are scheduled to go to the AA operating certificate in 2003. Some TWA captains are being trained to fly on the AA operating certificate; they will be flying with nAAtive first officers, displaced to STL, and in flight crews based elsewhere.

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This is Jane Allen with an Update for January 31, 2003.

As you know, we did not have enough flight attendants proffering for our last round of overage leaves to eliminate the overage in our AA bases. Thus, we are today carrying an overage of 528 flight attendants. This overage will be growing to approximately 750 over the next few months, and I’ll explain why in just a moment. As painful as it might be, I’m sure everyone understands why the Company cannot afford to operate with such a large surplus, particularly in light of our current financial crisis.

As you know, leaves and furloughs are about the only options we have to deal with a surplus of flight attendants. Since we do not have enough takers for leaves, we must go down the painful path of additional furloughs. This reality has placed us in the very difficult position of changing our previously announced plans for Integration Training.

Thus, we are postponing Integration Training for our St. Louis-based flight attendants, which was set to begin in March. It is not clear when such Training will begin, but at the earliest, it will be this fall. The change in plans means that when we modify TWA aircraft and bring the modified planes over the fence, crews based outside St. Louis will fly them for the foreseeable future. Unfortunately, this change in plans will result in an additional overage of up to 750 flight attendants in STL during the spring. Late yesterday, we briefed the APFA on this situation and told them we would have up to 355 furloughs by April 1, and an additional 395 furloughs by May 1.

The 750 person overage we are anticipating in April and May is caused by several factors. The first factor is the current system overage of 528 flight attendants. Further, in our continued efforts to make food service the same on AA and LLC aircraft, on March 1, we will move to Bistro and eliminate modular meals on LLC aircraft. This means we will need fewer flight attendants in main cabin on LCC aircraft after March 1. In addition, the previously announced grounding of 28 LLC Super-80s will have an impact, particularly as 10 of those aircraft come out of the schedule in April. Finally, a number of flight attendants currently on overage leaves are returning in May.

Clearly, I understand the painful consequences of this course of action, and I am truly sorry. But we simply cannot continue carrying an overage of this size, as the Company's financial condition remains dire. As in the past, we will proffer Overage Leaves and Partnership Flying in St. Louis and we will announce the opening and closing dates of the proffer very shortly. Also, I will be holding a Town Hall meeting in St. Louis on February 13 to answer questions and to provide as much information as I can to our STL flight attendants and management team.

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The only unionized TWA employees who were not stapled to the bottom of their respective lists were the 1037 most senior captians. There are only about 750 of those pilots left, due to retirements, both early and normal.

Next. The flying reserved to former TWA pilots in STL is limited to captains. According to "Suppliment CC" which governs the AA/TWA pilot integration agreement...AMR must maintain within the STL DOM a number of former TWA captains equal to a ratio of 30%, relative the DFW and ORD domiciles. That goes for both md-80 and 757/767 captains. Currently that ratio requires about 620 captains. The remaining pilots and flight attendants have no guarenteed jobs at all. None, zero.

Therefore...the amount of flying done by former TWA f/a's and f/o's is dependent upon the minimum, required number of former TWA capts(about 620 at the moment.) As TWA captains go over the fence,(into the new SLT DOM) as is about to happen, their copilots will be real AA copilots and their flight attendants real AA f/a's. The new SLT DOM can also contain real AA captains on temporary assignment.(The guys flying those 767's to London and Hawaii)

There are two certificates. TWA/LLC and AA. Since AA has too many pilots and F/A's they are training no former TWA crewmembers to AA's certificate, other than the required 620 senior captains. The furloughs are in inverse seniority. All former TWA F/A's and most former TWA pilots are on the very bottom of the combined seniority lists!

AA has established two domicles in St. Louis. The old TWA domicle,STL; made up of pilots and F/A's not trained to AA's certificate. A new domicle, SLT; effective in March, made up of former TWA captains trained to AA's certificate, real AA copilots,real AA f/a's and possibly some temporarily assigned, real AA capts.

So....TWA flight attendants and TWA f/o's lose their jobs as the former TWA captains go over the fence. This process will continue until all the required former TWA captains have been trained and gone over the fence.

Unless things improve and AA needs more pilots and f/a's; the only former TWA crewmember left flying will be 600 or so of the senior most former TWA captains. These captains must eventually go "over the fence" as the LLC certificate will expire no later than 2006; sooner at AMR's discretion.

I, with 31+ years and the #69 in seniority, former TWA pilot will be doing my thing: unless as a result of concessionary negotiations or bankruptcy, my protection within STL is eliminate. If so...then I will be a junior narrow body captain, somewhere,.... maybe!?!

My F/A wife, in her 31st year will be....gone.

Got It?

Bob Ritchie
STL 767 captain(for now)

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: Bob Ritchie ]

Let me say that I always enjoy your comments here and I have the utmost respect for you as a result. Your fine character is there for anyone to plainly see.

There is really one word to describe what is happening in the story you have outlined above -- it SUCKS!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by L1011Ret:
There is no 750 overage at the STL base. In fact, AA recently revealed that there is a shortage at the STL base. The fact is that there is an overage of 750 F/A's at AA bases other than STL.

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Words cannot express the sadness that fills me to watch helplessly as so many people from TWA are slowly cut off, one by one...

Posted on Tue, Feb. 11, 2003
LABOR SCENE: Former employees of TWA face layoffs at American

By RANDOLPH HEASTER
Columnist

Ex-TWA workers face layoffs

American Airlines has again decided to shrink operations to reduce costs, and the employee group hit hardest continues to be former Trans World Airlines flight attendants.

Lost amid reports last week that American would be seeking $1.8 billion in concessions from its work force was news that the carrier had decided to cut 750 more flight attendant jobs. American plans to eliminate 355 jobs in April and 395 more in May, all from American's operations in St. Louis.

That means all the layoffs will affect former TWA flight attendants who joined American in April 2001 when the carrier acquired the troubled St. Louis-based company.

Todd Burke, an American spokesman, said the exact number of involuntary layoffs would not be known until American completed the process of offering voluntary leaves of absence to the flight attendants.

Whether flight attendants leave on a voluntary or involuntary basis, the ones affected will be the ex-TWA employees. American's purchase of TWA left the ex-TWA flight attendants with no seniority to transfer to the merged carrier. That means that ex-TWA flight attendants at American began accumulating seniority at their new airline in April 2001.

In a previous reduction announced in December, American on Jan. 31 completed the layoff of 343 St. Louis-based flight attendants.

About 1,600 ex-TWA attendants have been furloughed since the merger and 400 more are on voluntary leave.

American has about 2,400 former TWA flight attendants, Burke said. Once the latest cuts take place, American will have about 1,650 former TWA attendants still working, or less than 40 percent of the number employed at the time of the merger. American has a total of about 19,000 flight attendants.

The latest layoff is likely to snag many veteran employees with more than 25 years of experience.

Given American's bargaining agreement with Association of Professional Flight Attendants, Burke said the company was obligated to lay off workers with the fewest years vested. Since the ex-TWA flight attendants began accumulating seniority less than two years ago, their status is below most of American's flight attendants.

"It's our hope we can mitigate the need for furloughs or at least reduce them" through voluntary departures, union spokesman George Price told Bloomberg News last week. "Unfortunately, we haven't been able to do that at all."

To contact Randolph Heaster, call (816) 234-4746 or send e-mail to rheaster@kcstar.com.

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Originally posted by aa777:
Another anti American article! God knows that even with this down turn in the economy AMR kept them employed at least another 2 years.

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Having carefully read the article a few times all I see is facts about the layoffs, about how the integration of TWA into AA placed the FA's at the bottom of the seniority list and thus are now the first to be laid off.

Nowhere in the article is there any criticism of AA, implied or otherwise.

What is true, though, is that, unique in the history of airline downturns, all the layoffs at AA are now coming from this one location.

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Originally posted by aa777:
Another anti American article! God knows that even with this down turn in the economy AMR kept them employed at least another 2 years.

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And they have been able to keep what??,, Virtually all of the mainsteam AA FAs. I know of one that lives near here with 3 years of seniority, and she is still working?

The article seems pretty objective to me. Just stating the facts.

Why is it anti AA? Didn't AA carefully all but resolve themsevles of the integration issues by stating it would be up to the unions to decide?

quote:

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Originally posted by TWA Fan 1:

The result is that AA will end up with a vastly less efficient personnel structure since they still need FA's for their STL-based flights who will now need to be assigned from other locations.

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quote:

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Originally posted by donuway:

And they have been able to keep what??,, Virtually all of the mainsteam AA FAs. I know of one that lives near here with 3 years of seniority, and she is still working?

Don

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quote:

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Originally posted by aa777:

They did the same thing with SJU. Its not a crew base at all and it seems to do OK with out having crews based there.

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Fair enough.

But, notwithstanding the need for layoffs, wouldn't an airline prefer any hub to also be a crew base? It can't be cheaper to have to fly people in than to have them reside locally. Of course, this is really the union dictating the nature of the layoffs, not AA.

My only point was that because all the LLC FA's are based in STL this is the only time in airline history that layoffs have been therefore in essence determined by crew base instead of seniority.

[ 02-12-2003: Message edited by: TWA Fan 1 ]

Maybe you could regain some of your own “personal esteem”, by thinking and speaking “more kindly of others”.

You have posted 4 messages since becoming a member today. Which one makes you most proud of having been a member of TWA?

Yes, I’m one of those (ex)pilots you appear to not be very fond of.

Randy Kramer

AA has established a new DOM in STL called SLT. That co-located DOM is where the former TWA captains,trained to the AA certificate,will fly with "reaL" AA copilots and "real" AA flight attendants. Thus no cost factor involing deadheading crews. All former TWA f/a's and about 75% of the former TWA pilots face furlough, by seniority.

Soon there may be only about 600 former TWA flight crew members flying for AA. All of them will be senior former TWA captains. That is it.

Of course.....I wouldn't bet that even the senior former TWA captains will have jobs. Anything could happen in a bankruptcy, by force majure(sp ?) or though mutual union/company negotiations.

Gotcha. It's so difficult for someone like me who truly loved TWA to sit back, so helpless, and see whatever vestige is left being completely dismantled.

How many LLC'ers have already crossed the fence? And at this point are the LLC procedures the old TWA procedures or the AA ones? And how different are the two?

At the moment only 13 LLC f/a's have crossed the fence. That was accomplished last fall, in order to trigger the combination of the AA/TWA f/a seniority list. AA was about to begin furloughing f/a's. They hurried up the combination so that they could furlough by seniority; the former TWA f/a's being on the bottom of the new list. Of the orginal 13, nine were just furloughed in the last announcement.

As for pilots; the first class of MD-80 captains are in Dallas right now, going through school. When finished, they will be 100% AA and fly AA metal, including modified, former TWA aircraft; within the SLT DOM. The anticipation is that about half of the LLC MD-80 captains will be trained by fall. It appears that the 767/757 captians will begin training by mid summer.

The current proceedures used by LLC flight crews are mostly old TWA proceedures, as we still operate under the TWA/LLC certificate. However, over the last 18 months there have been many modifications, slowly transitioning to mirror AA proceedures.

I just had my annual recurrent training and check ride this week. The training and checking was the "new mix", as we are doing on the line.

Only God knows what the future holds for AA. I would wager however that TWAAIRLINES LLC....will not exist many more months.

Yes....TWA is dead. Thanks for the memories. The story....would make a great movie!!

Very interesting, thank you. Yes, we all know that TWA is gone. There's no point in carping about it. And let's face it, TWA LLC is just a way for AA to try to smooth out the integration process. The whole objective of LLC is for it to die off as quickly as possible.

quote:

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Originally posted by TWA Fan 1:

My only point was that because all the LLC FA's are based in STL this is the only time in airline history that layoffs have been therefore in essence determined by crew base instead of seniority.

[ 02-12-2003: Message edited by: TWA Fan 1 ]

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Of course the layoffs are by seniority. But to my knowledge there has never been in airline history such a concentration of junior employees by location.

Let me give you an example. Assume AA hadn't acquired TWA and assume they would have lay people off. They would lay people off by seniority and, since people are hired at every crew base, layoffs would occur throughout the system. Some at DFW, some at JFK, some at ORD, etc.

With the TWA acquisition all STL employees are the most junior. That's indisputable according to the rules of the integration.

But the fact remains that AA intends to use STL as a hub and needs crews to fly those flights.

But don't get me worong, there is no argument with AA just a fairly mundane observation about one of the consequences of the TWA integration.

The irony here, in some respects, is that with the TWA people taking the brunt of the fall, they have helped protect the jobs of the AA people.

quote:

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Originally posted by L1011Ret:
If AA had not put those 23 LLC F/As through training, they would not have been able to merge seniority lists. The sole purpose of training the 23 was to be able to furlough LLC F/As and not have to furlough any AA F/As. They have not trained any other F/As on AA equipment. Without that move, AA F/As would have been furloughed somewhat proportionally to LLC F/As. This will be challenged in court.

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quote:

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Originally posted by L1011Ret:
Without that move, AA F/As would have been furloughed somewhat proportionally to LLC F/As.

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The "agreement" stipulated that the seniority lists would be merged on the first of the month following the first time a TWA FA worked an AA cabin, or on Dec 31, 2002, whichever came first. AA would have had to "unfurlough" and then "refurlough" at the end of the year if they hadn't put the class through training.

Some of us might have had our furloughs delayed a few weeks, but unfortunately the end result would have been the same.

SLT will lose 12 FA's to the Apr - May furlough. The base will soon have just 11 people. I see 3 lines and 2 reserves.

quote:

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Originally posted by L1011Ret:
Two suits are class action, TWA LLC F/As. Age discrimination complaints at the EEOC are individual cases, but most likely will be consolidated by the EEOC into a class action.

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Who's putting the class together? Private law firm? The union? Non-union group?

Haven't some gates been modified to fit 737s in STL?

How would a plane of this type fit into the STL equation?

quote:

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WE ARE MOVING FLYING TO ACCOMMODATE SENIORITY. WE WILL BE PROFFERING OVERAGE LEAVES AND PARTNERSHIP FLYING AND EXPECT TO AWARD OVERAGE LEAVES AND PARTNERSHIP FLYING ONLY IN ST. LOUIS WHERE THE OVERAGE EXISTS.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TWA Fan 1:
Of course the layoffs are by seniority. But to my knowledge there has never been in airline history such a concentration of junior employees by location.

Perhaps AA'ers should be thanking their lucky stars that the TWA acquisition happened when it did.

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Fan1, your perspective is correct, and the reason its occuring is because 1 major airline that has acquired another major airline has NEVER BEFORE failed to integrate the way AA obviously has, in regard to the acquired carrier's F/As. This is oviously not going to last, as very shortly, less than 50% of LLC's 4100 F/As will remain. That is, until the lawsuit reverses the integration and they're recalled.

quote:

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Originally posted by B-757-200:

Your second point might best be tried in the nearest ZOO, speaking with baboons or chimpanzees. They would probably understand that valid fact much better, and they'd be easier to talk to.

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B-757-200,

A word to my friends at AA who interact with LLCers: It's time to take it easy. Let down that guard for a few seconds and you might realize that TWA can bring a lot to AA. They might even have the key to saving the whole airline.

Will these two airlines ever form one family? Although I sincerely hope so for everyone's sake, it seems highly doubtful right now.

I have always believed that AA could have gained as much from the acquisition as TWA.

But it will (most likely) never come to pass because the corporate culture at AA is not about, shall we say, listening and sharing.

In the meantime, AA is bleeding money left and right while its competitors will all see black ink in the 1st qtr of 2003 (save UAL which will see black ink as soon as 2nd qtr).

While Don Carty is giving speeches explaining that the consumer should be willing to pay a 30% premium for AA's "premium" service, all the premiums are simultaneously being cut. What gives?

Meanwhile an airline like CO has aggressively advertised its maintenance of hot meal service and free upgrades. The result? CO is flying packed to the gills.

I flew to PHX and back from NYC this past weekend, All four flight segments were completely full to the very last seat.

And so AA and its senior management team are racking their brains for the solution which has been under its nose this whole time: Do what TWA did and AA will roar back to profitability.

Why am I so sure? Because the key consumer segment right now is what might be labelled the sub-premium business flyer, the PAX willing to spend slightly more (but not full Y) for a potential free upgrade, a free pass to the Admiral's Club, etc.

This segment is the one being most aggressively courted by the CO/NW combine. Even DL has relaxed some of its rules recently to entice these flyers.

The one airline that continues to offer absolutely the least for this sub-premium business flyer is AA. All you get is two inches of extra leg room in coach (and usually you're paying more for it, anyway).

quote:

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Originally posted by TWA Fan 1:

The one airline that continues to offer absolutely the least for this sub-premium business flyer is AA. All you get is two inches of extra leg room in coach (and usually you're paying more for it, anyway).

---

Personally, I prefer more legroom to airline haute cuisine. I'd rather buy some quality takeout and be comfortable on my flight than be cramped and have a free airline meal.

As down as I may be about AA, if you really want to help the LLCers, fly AA. The sooner AA recovers, the sooner the furlough fodder will be back to work.

In the meantime, AA is bleeding money left and right while its competitors will all see black ink in the 1st qtr of 2003 (save UAL which will see black ink as soon as 2nd qtr).

While Don Carty is giving speeches explaining that the consumer should be willing to pay a 30% premium for AA's "premium" service, all the premiums are simultaneously being cut. What gives?

Meanwhile an airline like CO has aggressively advertised its maintenance of hot meal service and free upgrades. The result? CO is flying packed to the gills.

I flew to PHX and back from NYC this past weekend, All four flight segments were completely full to the very last seat.

And so AA and its senior management team are racking their brains for the solution which has been under its nose this whole time: Do what TWA did and AA will roar back to profitability.

Why am I so sure? Because the key consumer segment right now is what might be labelled the sub-premium business flyer, the PAX willing to spend slightly more (but not full Y) for a potential free upgrade, a free pass to the Admiral's Club, etc.

This segment is the one being most aggressively courted by the CO/NW combine. Even DL has relaxed some of its rules recently to entice these flyers.

You might check out the news before you post.

Reuters
Continental Airlines Sees Heavy 2003 Loss
Thursday February 13, 8:55 pm ET
By Julie MacIntosh

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Continental Airlines (NYSE:CAL - News) expects to post a significant loss this year as slack revenue and high fuel costs sack its results, and its limited cash resources could pose serious problems if the travel slump continues, the airline said on Thursday.
ADVERTISEMENT


Houston-based Continental, the No. 5 U.S. carrier, said in its annual report to the Securities and Exchange Commission (News - Websites) that it is burning through $1.5 million a day. If the economy does not improve, Continental said it will not be able to support its current size and cost structure beyond 2003.

"The current U.S. domestic airline environment is the worst in our history," Continental said. "Business traffic in most markets continues to be weak, and carriers continue to offer reduced fares to attract passengers."

Continental believed it had enough liquidity and access to cash, a key asset in the volatile airline industry, to fund its business through this year and beyond, if cost-cutting and other efforts work.

Michael Boyd, an airline industry consultant, said the airline's chances of coming out of the wringer intact remained better than most of its rivals.

"Having a lack of cash is like being an alcoholic -- when you recognize the problem, you're halfway cured," Boyd said. "For Continental, it's more curable than others."

But if external factors arise, such as a prolonged war or new terror attacks, Continental said its financial problems could accelerate.

"You'd better not be on the courthouse steps when that happens, because there's going to be a stampede to file Chapter 11," Boyd said.

COST-CUT WAGON FILLING QUICKLY

The airline industry is not expected to show much improvement this year, as it struggles to recover from more than $14 billion in stifling financial losses over the past two years. Continental, which posted a $451 million loss last year, said it could not predict when business travel or ticket prices might rebound.

United Airlines, a unit of UAL Corp., (NYSE:UAL - News) followed US Airways Group Inc. (OTC BB:UAWGQ.OB - News) into bankruptcy last year, and AMR Corp.'s (NYSE:AMR - News) American Airlines, the world's largest air carrier, is now working feverishly to avoid bankruptcy itself by cutting as much as $4 billion in annual costs.

American and United have asked for billions of dollars per year in cost savings from their workers. But Continental, which has hubs in Newark, N.J., Houston and Cleveland, has lower costs than many of its rivals, and has been less vocal about cutting expenses in recent months.

Labor accounts for 40 percent of the industry's overall operating costs -- its biggest expense -- but Continental pays 35 percent of its operating expenses to its 44,000 employees.

The airline gave its mechanics a raise as part of an agreement ratified in December, and is currently in talks on a new contract with its pilots. It said on Thursday that drastic labor-related cost-cutting by US Airways and United could make talks with its own pilots more difficult to predict.

HIGH LEVERAGE A PROBLEM

Analysts have recently warned that Continental's slimmer cash levels could put it at risk. The airline had $1.3 billion of cash at the end of 2002, but its debt grew 26 percent to $5.7 billion, and it said it might need more financing.

Continental said its high leverage could affect its ability to meet its financing needs and satisfy current obligations. Because of its light cash position, it said it might be less able than some of its competitors to withstand a prolonged industry recession.

Rival airlines emerging from bankruptcy will also probably have lower cost structures and more flexibility, Continental said. Continental emerged from its second bankruptcy filing a decade ago.

Continental has outstanding orders for 67 jetliners from Boeing Co. (NYSE:BA - News) valued at $2.5 billion and slated for delivery through 2008, including four due in the fourth quarter of 2003. The airline has no backstop financing from Boeing for those aircraft.

quote:

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Originally posted by TWA Fan 1:
A word to my friends at AA who interact with LLCers: Let down that guard for a few seconds and you might realize that TWA can bring a lot to AA. They might even have the key to saving the whole airline.

Will these two airlines ever form one family? Although I sincerely hope so for everyone's sake, it seems highly doubtful right now.

---

TWA Fan, it's going to be extremely hard for TWA'ers to bring anything to AA if AA furloughs them all. So far, out of 21,000 TWA employees working when AA bought TWA, only 8000 are left, and that number is dwindling. Make no mistake, AA workers nor management could care less about LLC employees and their experiences or 'what they brought to the deal'. They just want us gone.

quote:

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Originally posted by aa777:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TWA Fan 1:
[QB]
Reuters
Continental Airlines Sees Heavy 2003 Loss
Thursday February 13, 8:55 pm ET
By Julie MacIntosh

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Continental Airlines (NYSE:CAL - News) expects to post a significant loss this year as slack revenue and high fuel costs sack its results, and its limited cash resources could pose serious problems if the travel slump continues, the airline said on Thursday.

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AA777,

Remember....long term planning and projection within this industry is "about one week."

quote:

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Originally posted by B-757-200:

Your second point, eloquently put, is absolutely and unfortunately correct. It will NEVER be a happy family sinve only LLC'ers are losing their jobs, and new-hire AA ones are'nt.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Ritchie:
TWA Fan 1,

Remember....long term planning and projection within this industry is "about one week."

Bob R.

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quote:

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Originally posted by aa777:

This is a totally false statement. Over 1000 native AA flight attendants were furloughed. There are no new-hire flight attendants working.

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First of all, of the 2,396 flight attendants who are furloughed, approximately 1,700 are TWAers. Another 750 are about to join them in April and May; more are to follow as the planes are being converted to the AA specifications while the integration training continues to be on indefinite hold. For the sake of complete accuracy, all nAAtives who were on line as of April 9, 2001, or earlier, are still flying while LLCers who have been flying since 1977 are being furloughed.

All the nAAtive flight attendants who were furloughed after 9/11 have line seniority dates of 4/10/01 or later and, without exception, all were on probation when they were laid off.

For some, the definition of a new hire is different than for others.

[ 02-20-2003: Message edited by: TWAnr ]

Thanks for clarifying the facts on this. The numbers speak for themselves in this whole, sorry affair of how TWA employees have been handled after the heist (er, uh ..."acquisition").

What is the phrase you sometimes close with ..."justice, justice, you shall pursue ..."
It would be nice of some folks in the Lone Star state would take heed.