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» Smilin' Jack   » Specific Airline Discussions   » TWA   » A potential reason to vote NO

   
Author Topic: A potential reason to vote NO
tim townsend
Junior Poster
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I just got off the phone with APA HQ. My question had to do with the flowback to Eagle and it's provisions in the TA and how they relate to LLC pilots. Although no one could give me a straight answer, it seems that unless Supp CC is specifically amended in this regard, NO LLC pilot will be able to flow to Eagle. Does anyone have any info on this? Are my assumptions true? If this is the case, we've once again been hung out to dry. This will make YEARS of difference in recall, retirement benefits, etc. And if that isn't enough, the nAAtives that are factually junior to us will get recalled before us, albeit to Eagle RJ Captain. W T F???????????
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smilinjack
The Big Boss
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Here is a quote from KB.....


"Supp W was eliminated in the TA (and 1113). No one will flow back (LLC or AA natives).

Provisions are in place to fly 51+ seat jets at AA (4 part bid status) within a year. This would include the CRJ70 and the family of EMB-170/190, etc,

Vote no and that goes away in 1113. Along with unlimited recall, furloughee passes and another 2 years on the street. Think with your head and not with emotion. "

I would rethink your no vote.

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L1011Ret
Post Captain
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Adding to Jack's post. Whenever it comes to big decisions and you are angry, revengeful, hateful, disgusted, etc., you are likely to vote with those feelings. Not your more rational thinking mind, but thoughts linked and connected to those feelings noted above. Therefore, your decision is based upon your feeling state and not what you really believe is the best course of action for you and the outfit you work for. Of course APA & APFA could have done better and so could Carty have made AA a more profitable airline. So now you can say "both of these parties can put this T/A where the sun does not shine" and vote "no f...ing way." I understand your feelings and agree with them. These are bad times and people are angry. But before you vote with your feelings think about what you want for yourself and AA. And think of your fellow employees too. Cast your vote when you are feeling calm and peaceful. Then it is more likely to reflect what YOU REALLY WANT! And instead of shooting yourself in the foot you can say "I did the right thing."

William Chamberlin

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Draginitin
Post Captain
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OK . . . . I've thought about it . . . . . NO.
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Goodyear_26
Post Captain
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Would be interested to know the ramifications for you if you vote "YES" or "NO".
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L1011Ret
Post Captain
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Good idea about ramifications. Make a list of plusses and minuses and see where you are at.
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smilinjack
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quote:
OK . . . . I've thought about it . . . . . NO.
In other words....OK . . . . I've thought about it (don't confuse me with the facts) . . . . . NO.

quote:
Would be interested to know the ramifications for you if you vote "YES" or "NO".
Read my other post again in this thread.....
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AABob
Post Captain
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Drag,
What's it like to be bullet proof? This T/A sucks by any and every measure. However, if it doesn't pass, you can kiss the pension as we know it good-bye. The 51+ seat to AA is HUGE. ALL things considered (including butitfixit) I'm a "yes" vote.

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Don Capt Skypig Foldy
Post Captain
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what pension???
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Draginitin
Post Captain
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There's gonna be alot more furloughs and the pension is next to be attacked.

Lots of 51 seaters, huh, at what pay (eagle pay) and for how many? Spoken like a true senior guy. Even in Darrah's email sell jobs, he doesn't give a s**t either . . . . in fact it's not even important enough to detail.

Those jobs aren't coming back to mainline.

[ 04-03-2003, 10:55: Message edited by: Draginitin ]

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AABob
Post Captain
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Great! A man with a plan. I'll vote no. Now then, how do we stop the furloughs?
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Bewildered
Post Captain
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Believe what you like but a judge or creditor's commitee would not be as kind. The Union's know that.

Do you think the public cares about the survival of the airlines? They only thing they care about is cheap fares. If they could they would reduce the industry to the same size, cost of a bus line and a seventy-five cent fare. This is a fact of life in this industry.

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Bob Bayless
Post Captain
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If you are counting on a pension after seeing what has happened to the rest of the industry, you're not thinking straight. Maybe they won't get it tomorrow, but they will get it.

The company and senior pilots snookered you on this one.

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webmoonchild
Post Captain
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I am holding my nose and voting yes...The legal system is not my friend.
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Draginitin
Post Captain
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"The 51+ seat to AA is HUGE."

Yes it is. However, the senior APA guys will sell out and let it be flown for AE compensation (cost neutral). Carty will get that through, then start mincing the A fund and eliminate the B fund. Only then will the senior guys will get outraged . . . then bend over . . . . again.

Having worked for non-union airlines in the past, I don't see much difference between then and now. Our so-called union has disintegrated into rubber stamp irrelevance. That's why Carty agreed to "agency shop." He knows he can substancially control it, so NOW he want's to give it some power over the employees. I hope I'm wrong, but that what my gut check says . . . and it's hardly ever wrong.

[ 04-05-2003, 09:50: Message edited by: Draginitin ]

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