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Author Topic: The real truth at last! TWA-AA
L1011Ret
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This was written by Bob Pastore now retired. He was APLA MEC Chairman and TWA BOD member at the time of the AA purchase. The letter will clear up a lot of misrepresentations and fantasies. We should all thank Bob for his endless efforts on behalf of the TWA pilots.


April 7, 2003

The Honorable Kay Bailey Hutchison
United States Senator
284 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510

Via Federal Express

Dear Mrs. Hutchison,

Please allow me to make some corrections to comments that you made on the Senate floor during the debate on the defense appropriations bill wherein Senator?s Jim Talent (R-Mo) and Christopher ?Kit? Bond (R-Mo) attempted to add legislation to assist airline workers in mergers and acquisitions. This missive is rather lengthy but its length is required by the circumstances.

I speak from the knowledgeable position of being the pilot representative to the Trans World Airlines, Inc. (TWA) Board of Directors and chairman of the TWA unit of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) during the purchase of TWA?s assets by American Airlines, Inc.

Some of your comments are misleading or lack a factual basis. Please allow my perspective.

You said, in response to Senator Talent?s motion for a Sense-of-the-Senate Amendment, ?I am very sad and very sorry about the situation with the TWA employees. It was a difficult situation when TWA was in bankruptcy. A number of airlines sought to take over TWA. American was the one that was willing to do it.?

TWA was not in bankruptcy prior to American?s purchase. The bankruptcy filing by TWA was a condition of the Asset Purchase Agreement as written and proposed by American. Both Boards of Directors accepted the Asset Purchase agreement at about 5p.m. EST on January 9, 2001 and in compliance with the terms and conditions of the Agreement, immediately filed bankruptcy later that evening or early the next morning. One purpose of the bankruptcy filing was to evict Carl Icahn?s onerous Karabu Ticket Agreement. I have attached the Asset Purchase Agreement and call your attention to the Recitals.

At the time of the American purchase, TWA was in the midst of negotiations to merge with America West Airlines. The American deal was not mentioned to the TWA Board until January 9th, 2001 and came as a bit of a surprise, to say the least.

You said, ?American offered to preserve the jobs and pensions of the TWA employees at the time if the unions would agree to waive their seniority rights from TWA . That was the agreement.?

You have oversimplified what was agreed to - and never carried out. It is true that the Asset Purchase Agreement called for the unionized employee groups to waive the Scope provisions of their contracts but at the promise of the ?reasonable best efforts? by American Airlines to afford a fair seniority integration. If we knew at the outset that the totality of American?s best efforts was simply to hire a facilitator (as opposed to an arbitrator) to monitor the so-called merger talks between the groups there is no way that any employee faction would have surrendered its Scope clauses.

You further stated, ? If American had not stepped up to the plate, all of the TWA pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, and ticket agents would have lost their jobs immediately and their pension funds would have been wiped out. Instead, American not only persevered their jobs but fully funded the TWA pension funds.?

April 7, 2003
The Honorable Kay Bailey Hutchison
Page 2

I can speak for the pilots. Our pension funds were never in danger or at risk. In the 1992 bankruptcy we were successful in extricating our Directed Account Plan (DAP) from TWA and self-manage it. Each TWA
pilot has had direct control of TWA?s contributions since that time ? a position that the United, USAirways and American pilots would now drool over.

TWA did halt the contributions to the DAP once bankruptcy was declared and American did make good on behalf of TWA. But that was for a brief period of time and all part of the bankruptcy plan as insisted to by the Asset Purchase Agreement. It was also a relatively small monetary commitment on American?s behalf.

Our A Plan ? the Defined Benefit Plan ? was in the hands of Carl Icahn until September of 2000 at which time he allowed the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation to take it over. Each TWA pilot has been receiving his or her just due since that time from the PBGC. American Airlines has had absolutely no liability, contribution commitment or concern relative to this fund.

As to your comment that TWA would have gone out of business ? that?s the spin put on TWA?s situation by American and its unions ? just like the fallacy that TWA was in bankruptcy when American came along. TWA had 157 million in cash at the instant of the American Purchase. There had been times in TWA?s past that they had less than 5 million operating capital and still succeeded because the true spirit of TWA lies in the brothers and sisters that worked there ? the employees. They had given before and would have again. In addition, American gained a partial ownership in Worldspan, TWA?s reservation unit, which American sold last month and netted them some 500 million dollars (this does not count the excess cash that Worldspan was forecast to distribute to the partners in 2001 and 2002). It is also far in excess of the bankruptcy value of $200 to $210 million placed upon it at the time.

You should also know that the TWA Board was in negotiations to replace its top management when the American purchase came along. On January 5, 2001 at a special board meeting a resolution was placed in front of the board to change out management, but withdrawn on the promise of a third party investor which turned out to be American. That saved management?s rear end and they escaped with healthy golden parachutes leaving the employees to fend for themselves.

You said: ?Everyone hoped the aviation industry would recover and that everyone would stay employed. It is still the hope of every American employee that the TWA former employees who have been laid off will be hired back. American is committed to hire back former TWA employees before anyone else.?

While American may be ?committed,? it is only bound by its contractual agreements with its employees. In the case of the pilots, they have ten year recall rights and the flight attendants five. In my 36 years as a pilot for TWA I witnessed many recessions and many furloughs. The worst was the 1970 through the 1978 time period. That?s eight years pilots were furloughed. This recession is the grand daddy of them all in my lifetime. While I firmly believe Mr. Bush will eventually get this country back on its financial feet, it will be some time before the recovery will allow recalls. This furlough then is nothing more than a termination notice to thousands of TWA employees.

You said, ?However, the TWA employees took this matter to the National Mediation Board. The National Mediation Board has rendered a decision reinforcing the original agreement. TWA pilots and flight attendants have appealed. That is their right.?

You obfuscate the facts. As you know the National Mediation Board has a very narrow scope of official duties. The Board?s jurisdiction is generally limited to ?certifying,? or making a determination as to the correct representative of a class and craft of employee.

The TWA employees never petitioned the Board, they simply responded to petitions by the Allied Pilots Association and the Association of Professional Flight Attendants. Both of whom are and were American Airlines labor unions. American Airlines also supported their union?s petitions.

This determination procedure is set into play when an un-represented group of employees petition the Board to make that determination, or when there is a dispute as to whom the correct representative should be, usually caused by two or more labor unions making such a representational claim for the same class and craft of employee. In NMB terms a ?representational certification? is issued.

As the Board specifically states in several of their documents, specifically NMB correspondence to all parties dated March 5, 2001:

?ALPA requests that the Board delay its determination until the issue of seniority integration is resolved either by the system board of adjustment or the parties. It is well established Board precedent that contractual issues arising from a single transportation system determination are outside of the Board?s jurisdiction.?

In other words the NMB declined to address the issue at hand, and stated in no uncertain terms it was out of their jurisdiction.

You said, ?Briefly, this situation is not easy for anyone and I recognize that. I emphasize that there are thousands of people who are in a uniquely difficult situation, people with 10, 15, 20 years seniority with a company.?

With respect to the pilots, it will be 15 years as opposed to an American pilot hired less than three years ago. As for the flight attendants, every single former TWA flight attendant will be terminated (five year recall rights). TWA flight attendants with 40 years seniority are gone, just gone. Single mom?s, homemakers trying to support their family unit, people with kids in college versus an American flight attendant in his or her early 20?s hired in the year 2000.

I am now retired, but let me reflect once again on this entire matter from my perspective of 36 years in this business. American?s management and its unions are like two pre-historic beasts mired in a swamp fighting to the death, neither realizing that their aggression will result in their extinction.

Respectfully and sincerely,

Robert A. Pastore
Former Member, TWA Board of Directors
Former Chairman, TWA Master Executive Council, Air Line Pilots Association.


Cc: Sen. Talent
Sen. Bond
D. Carty

Enc: (1)

[ 04-08-2003, 21:28: Message edited by: L1011Ret ]

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TWA Fan 1
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I've excerpted two phrases from Captain Pastore's letter that sums it up for me:

quote:
Originally posted by L1011Ret:
There had been times in TWA's past that they had less than 5 million operating capital and still succeeded because the true spirit of TWA lies in the brothers and sisters that worked there. the employees. They had given before and would have again.

AND

American's management and its unions are like two pre-historic beasts mired in a swamp fighting to the death, neither realizing that their aggression will result in their extinction.

And this from one of the most measured people you'll ever meet in the airline industry...

[ 04-08-2003, 18:53: Message edited by: TWA Fan 1 ]

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Goose_IowaAirways
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Bob's wasting his breath(or words, in this case). We all know 'what' Kay Bailey Hutchison 'is', we just have to determine her price....TC
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TWA Fan 1
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Kay Bailey "AMR's PAC soft money Sure is Great" Hutchison.
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nyc6035
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I wonder how close HP was to inking a deal with TWA?

$157MM at the time of BK. Even if they couldn't refinance the $100MM AR Note, they certainly would have made it through to the Fall of 2001 with that kind of cash.

I'm guessing, but perhaps someone was willing to pony up a new loan for $100MM with a condition of a change in managment.

hmmm....

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Jeff I.
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quote:
Originally posted by nyc6035:
I wonder how close HP was to inking a deal with TWA?

$157MM at the time of BK. Even if they couldn't refinance the $100MM AR Note, they certainly would have made it through to the Fall of 2001 with that kind of cash.

I'm guessing, but perhaps someone was willing to pony up a new loan for $100MM with a condition of a change in managment.

hmmm....

Mike -

It's funny ...... although I've always been critical and a bit suspicious of the AA deal, I guess having met Compton and really liking him, I've always been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Then ..... I read what seems to be a credible account from Pastore of what really went on behind the scenes. I also think back to my flight with Compton when he revealed to me that a codeshare with a domestic airline would be announced shortly (he wouldn't reveal the name but by that time I pretty well knew it would be AWA). He also indicated in his comments that bigger news was possible beyond the codeshare. In retrospect, this does suggest a good possibility that he was hinting at what Pastore claims about a TWA/AWA merger.

I also think that once Bush was annointed by the Supreme Court, AMR felt emboldened to make a move to one-up UAL thinking that Bush's DOJ was unlikely to issue any antitrust objections. So ... they lined their political ducks up in a row, approached a CEO who apparently was weakened and on the ropes at that time (I think the scenario of conditional financing of the $100M Note you throw out is very plausible) and a TWA BOD who never wanted to spend the money to bring in a proven CEO from outside, and ....... voila ---- you have the makings of a last-minute deal where a politically-connected giant like AMR gets its way and the TWA BOD and management essentially get bought off. This coupled with the fact that I'm sure TWA was given a strict time deadline to rule thumbs up or thumbs down and cooler, analytical heads were not allowed to deliberate.

I don't know ...... as I said on the other thread to Bob H., I don't have any sense of what other options were really out there. But .... after reading Pastore's letter, it really seems to blow another huge hole in the story given for public consumption (and testified to before Congress), that TWA was within weeks of bankruptcy, that AA was saving jobs and the STL hub, etc., etc.

At this point and with some distance, anyone who believes that lock, stock and barrel ..... I think you and I, Mike, have a bridge spanning the East River that we could sell them.

Jeff I.

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donuway
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quote:
Originally posted by nyc6035:
I wonder how close HP was to inking a deal with TWA?

$157MM at the time of BK. Even if they couldn't refinance the $100MM AR Note, they certainly would have made it through to the Fall of 2001 with that kind of cash.

I'm guessing, but perhaps someone was willing to pony up a new loan for $100MM with a condition of a change in managment.

hmmm....

I think I remember reading a few years ago when some of us wondered about the value of Worldspan also. We were told TWA couldn't get rid of it as the "Vultures" were figuring it could be there for the picking soon.

With some increased financial stability shot into the arm of TWA, as some of the above scenarios would have resulted in , if they were credible, I'm sure Worldspan would have been "worth" something. $500 million?? Good Lord! Either AA waited until the time was right, or they waited until the time was right [Wink]

Don

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keho
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These are indeed highly interesting revelations by Bob Pastore. I always thought that a merger of America West and TWA would be an almost natural development, and it would have made a formidable competitor for the "Big Three". It's no wonder that American did whatever it would take to prevent this from happening. Well, they succeeded, but at what price!

In order to find out the rest of the story, one would have to take a close look at every single TWA board member:
I find it very believable that a takeover by AMR was not discussed at officil board meetings. More likely, AMR approached key figures of TWA's BOD individually in order to secure the deal. It would not even surprise me, if it turned out that Compton learned about the plan at a very late stage. My hunch is that on the TWA side Gitner was probably the mastermind behind the deal. Just remember what he said in 1997, when he resigned as CEO, namely that Compton was to be in charge of the day-to-day business (basically continuing his role as COO under a different job title), while he (Gitner) would focus on the airline's long-term strategy - which was to sell it off one way or the other (but he didn't say that).

[ 04-09-2003, 10:55: Message edited by: keho ]

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Jeff I.
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quote:
Originally posted by keho:
These are indeed highly interesting revelations by Bob pastore. I always thought that a merger of America West and TWA would be an almost natural development, and it would have made a formidable competitor for the "Big Three". It's no wonder that American did whatever it would take to prevent this from happening. Well, they succeeded, but at what price!

In order to find out the rest of the story, one would have to take a close look at every single TWA board member:
I find it very believable that a takeover by AMR was not discussed at officil board meetings. More likely, AMR approched key figures of TWA's BOD individually in order to secure the deal. It would not even surprise me, if it turned out that Compton learned about the plan at a very late stage. My hunch is that on the TWA side Gitner was probably the mastermind behind the deal. Just remember what he said in 1997, when he resigned as CEO, namely that Compton was to be in charge of the day-to-day business (basically continuing his role as COO under a different job title), while he (Gitner) would focus on the airline's long-term strategy - which was to sell it off one way or the other (but he didn't say that).

Kevin -

Good points and very plausible scenario. I wouldn't put it past Gitner to have been the mastermind ..... snake that he is. Indeed, his squirming around at any pointed question put to him by Marky when they flew together a few months back is one of those anecdotal (but persuasive) hints at what he probably has to hide.

Your speculation on Compton may also be right. When I conversed with him just 5 or 6 weeks before the announcement, he sure as hell seemed like someone who was looking to build the airline rather than sell it. Further, his testimony before Congress when he stated that "the bankruptcy was AA's idea, not something TWA had been looking to declare," always seemed like a slip that I'm sure made AA cringe (probably Gitner, too) by someone who was not fully briefed and fully on board with "the plan" at that time.

Jeff I.

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LATREAL
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quote:
Originally posted by L1011Ret:
[QB] This was written by Bob Pastore now retired. He was APLA MEC Chairman and TWA BOD member at the time of the AA purchase. The letter will clear up a lot of misrepresentations and fantasies. We should all thank Bob for his endless efforts on behalf of the TWA pilots.


OK, so I'm thinking why does anything written by this person automatically become "The Real Truth At Last"?
[Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes]

[ 04-09-2003, 13:03: Message edited by: LATREAL ]

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MrMarky
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Pasatore's revealing letter confirms just about everything Jeff and I have been saying since the beginning about this deal. You may also recall that in about October of 2000, Palumbo stated that TWA planned to refinance the $100 million note and did not anticipate having any difficulty in doing so -- I believe that may even be contained in TWA's final 10Q statement.

The part where Pastore goes astray from our thinking is in painting Compton as one of the bad guys, doing the deal to save his own hide. Interesting.

The one part where Pastore is completely out to lunch is his statement about how Bush will turn around the economy -- yeah right. Maybe he was just doing a little kissy assy to Ms. Hutchinson.

All in all, this is a fascinating revelation from a TWA board member and just a taste of the kind of thing which the discovery process would unveil.

As for the Senate amendment, does anyone really believe the likes of Talent and Bond have any interest in labor union well-being? This was tokenism. They couldn't withdraw the amendment fast enough--probably because it would have passed with little objection. Clinton and Schumer should re-introduce it, forcing the two Republican hypocrites from MO to vote against it.

[ 04-09-2003, 16:57: Message edited by: MrMarky ]

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donuway
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There are a few things about this letter that really get ones mind working, especially if you are one of the "cospiracy" theorists. [Cool]

January 9th was the first day the TWA BOD found out about this deal? Was that a typo? The whole world knew about it on January 8th, early AM. Full PR spin etc. was going on within 24 hours. And it was a surprise to the BOD on January 9th? Clearly SOMEONE on the board knew about it, but who?,,and how many?

And the America West Deal?/ We have recently heard of Northwest in a secret deal to buy TWA. So what was all of the spin on the street, (and in the Courtroom?) that no airlines were returning Bill Comptons, (or someone elses?) calls?

I have stated before that TWAs BOD was not very effective IMO, and once I even stuck my neck out and said they must have all been working on their own agendas. Could they really have been this dysfunctional?

Perhaps Pastore was not tied to a confidentiality agreement, or he breeched it??

Don

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TWAnr
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quote:
Originally posted by MrMarky:
The part where Pastore goes astray from our thinking is in painting Compton as one of the bad guys, doing the deal to save his own hide. Interesting.

Marky,

What would you expect from a staunch Republican who lives in a county south of the one where I live.

Captain Pastore was an ardent supporter of Jim Talent in his successful campaign to unseat Senator Jean Carnahan. On more than one occasion, he and other TWA LLC pilots appeared with then candidate Talent at high profile campaign rallies.

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Bob H
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Lest some of you have forgotten; 25% of the TWA Corporate BOD were union reps.

Based on my info, ALL of them supported the "AA Acquisition".

I commend Captain Pastore for taking the time to write to Senator Hutchison and "set the record straight".

At the same time, the real issue *was*; "did Compton (irresponsibly) sell out the TWA employees"?

Captain Pastore as well as the other TW labor groups were strong proponents (on record) in DOT and Senate hearings to PUSH through the AA acquisition and opposed ANY & ALL other (potential) interests.

My opinion is right there with Captain Randy; Captain Bill COmpton did what WAS the ONLY viable alternative for the TWA employees and that alternative, AA, was fully supported by the TW union leadership and TW employees.

Respectfully-

Bob H

Ps. How many of you are aware that the TW/IAM received arbitration for their integration with the AA/TWU?

----------

How many of you are aware of what the REAL POSITIVE consequences WOULD have been for the TWA pilots if the AA fleet size was still;

More than 900 aircraft? (on 12/31/00 AA had 717 acft and TW had 173)

How about 871-880 aircraft?

----------

As I've noted earlier.. The TW F/A's were the only TW labor group who were entirely 100% stapled to a "universal" F/A seniority list with no real protections from the future downsizing and virtually little in the way of opportunities when AA goes back into a growth mode.

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Bob H
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How things perceived can drastically change?

This letter should leave little doubt about which direction Captain Pastore believed was the *BEST* one for TWA pilots as he stood along side of Captain Bill Compton's choice for the TWA employee's future.
link to Captain Pastore's letter to Transportation Committee

quote:
Statement of the Air Line Pilots Association, TWA Master Executive Council Submitted to the Committee of Commerce, Science and Transportation United States Senate

“The Acquisition of TWA by American Airlines”

February 1, 2001

The Air Line Pilots Association, Intl. (ALPA) is the collective bargaining representative for over 2,300 pilots at TWA, and over 59,000 pilots in the United States and Canada. ALPA has represented airline pilots since 1931.

TWA’s future has been in doubt for many years, but its pilots have come through again and again to keep the airline flying. In the last 15 years, pilots alone have agreed to more than $600 million in tangible concessions in reduced salaries and work rule changes. As a result, TWA pilots today make significantly less, on average, than pilots at other airlines who have equivalent seniority, expertise and training.

Despite those difficulties, ALPA and the pilots it represents have continued to work tirelessly to help TWA achieve success. Due in part to the efforts of TWA’s pilots, TWA has achieved consistently high customer satisfaction rankings, on-time performance, and has one of the best safety records in the history of commercial aviation.

The pilots have played an integral role in TWA’s future not only as employees, but also as stakeholders and creditors of the airline.

Although others may have bankruptcy claims against TWA that contain higher dollar figures, no one has more invested in TWA than its employees—especially its pilots.

ALPA’s primary concern regarding the proposed acquisition of TWA by American Airlines is for the long-term stability and professional growth of the 2,300 pilot jobs. However, ALPA believes that, in this specific situation, what is best for the pilots is also in the best interest of the traveling public, the hub state of Missouri, and the jobs, families, lives and communities of our 2,300 pilots and 20,000 TWA employees Worldwide.

With all of these interests in mind, ALPA-represented TWA pilots support a complete, fair and sound resolution to this latest and, we believe, final chapter in our airline’s history.

This resolution will allow TWA and its many constituencies, including its 20,000 employees, to:

· Secure the long-term stability of 20,000 jobs that remain as good or better than they are now.

· Protect the medical and retirement benefits of past TWA employees. Even though ALPA does not represent its retired members in collective bargaining, no one would argue that fulfilling promises to retirees is the right thing to do.

· Avoid ongoing fatal damage from Carl Icahn, who is in no small part responsible for the situation which TWA now finds itself, and who has claimed he is willing to provide economic support to other interested parties.

· Advance a complete, fair and sound resolution, sparing those markets largely served by TWA from economic damage.

For these reasons, we submit that the offer from American Airlines to buy TWA’s assets satisfactorily crosses the threshold and meets the criteria outlined above. It is an example of the complete, fair and sound solution we seek. We applaud American for coming forward with this proposal that recognizes the tremendous value of TWA.

In particular, American Airlines Chief Executive Officer Donald Carty has specifically committed in testimony before this committee “to hire all of TWA’s employees and to continue a hub operation in St. Louis.” We note especially and favorably Mr. Carty’s statement before the Senate Judiciary Committee on February 7 in which he stated, “We look forward to adding TWA’s 20,000 employees to the American Airlines family. We are keenly aware of TWA’s illustrious history and know that were it not for the hard work and great performance of the people throughout TWA, they would not be the perfect fit for American that we believe they are.”

Other bids for TWA’s assets are possible, but it is unlikely that any other proposal will be presented that will protect employees, retirees and customers. TWA’s financial weakness has been no secret, and during the months when, prior to bankruptcy, TWA management sought buyers, only American came forward.

We respectfully urge the committee to support the type of complete, fair and sound solution that we seek—a solution that fully addresses the interests of all parties from employees to creditors, consumers and communities; that is fair to all parties and, most important, is sound, ensuring a smooth transition from the TWA of today to a new and more promising future for all concerned.

Then came 9/11.

Obviously there are excerpts that could be used for or against actual occurrences.

Respectfully-

Bob H

I'm not very good at this link stuff but here is one that I use to research documents.

document links

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donuway
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Other bids for TWA’s assets are possible, but it is unlikely that any other proposal will be presented that will protect employees, retirees and customers. TWA’s financial weakness has been no secret, and during the months when, prior to bankruptcy, TWA management sought buyers, only American came forward.

So if Captain Pastore was telling the truth here, or this was the extent of his knowlege at the time, when did he find out about the America West Deal, and who on the board were they talking to? Either someone is/was not being honest, or the America West deal was only being casually discussed with maybe a small amount of board members? (Perhaps as small as 1?)

Of course a "merger" with America West may not be considered a "buyer". The TWA BOD may have thought that a buyer was the only feasible solution at the time.

Don

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MD80 Flyguy
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob H:
How things perceived can drastically change?

This letter should leave little doubt about which direction Captain Pastore believed was the *BEST* one for TWA pilots as he stood along side of Captain Bill Compton's choice for the TWA employee's future.
link to Captain Pastore's letter to Transportation Committee

quote:
Statement of the Air Line Pilots Association, TWA Master Executive Council Submitted to the Committee of Commerce, Science and Transportation United States Senate

“The Acquisition of TWA by American Airlines”

February 1, 2001

The Air Line Pilots Association, Intl. (ALPA) is the collective bargaining representative for over 2,300 pilots at TWA, and over 59,000 pilots in the United States and Canada. ALPA has represented airline pilots since 1931.

TWA’s future has been in doubt for many years, but its pilots have come through again and again to keep the airline flying. In the last 15 years, pilots alone have agreed to more than $600 million in tangible concessions in reduced salaries and work rule changes. As a result, TWA pilots today make significantly less, on average, than pilots at other airlines who have equivalent seniority, expertise and training.

Despite those difficulties, ALPA and the pilots it represents have continued to work tirelessly to help TWA achieve success. Due in part to the efforts of TWA’s pilots, TWA has achieved consistently high customer satisfaction rankings, on-time performance, and has one of the best safety records in the history of commercial aviation.

The pilots have played an integral role in TWA’s future not only as employees, but also as stakeholders and creditors of the airline.

Although others may have bankruptcy claims against TWA that contain higher dollar figures, no one has more invested in TWA than its employees—especially its pilots.

ALPA’s primary concern regarding the proposed acquisition of TWA by American Airlines is for the long-term stability and professional growth of the 2,300 pilot jobs. However, ALPA believes that, in this specific situation, what is best for the pilots is also in the best interest of the traveling public, the hub state of Missouri, and the jobs, families, lives and communities of our 2,300 pilots and 20,000 TWA employees Worldwide.

With all of these interests in mind, ALPA-represented TWA pilots support a complete, fair and sound resolution to this latest and, we believe, final chapter in our airline’s history.

This resolution will allow TWA and its many constituencies, including its 20,000 employees, to:

• Secure the long-term stability of 20,000 jobs that remain as good or better than they are now.

• Protect the medical and retirement benefits of past TWA employees. Even though ALPA does not represent its retired members in collective bargaining, no one would argue that fulfilling promises to retirees is the right thing to do.

• Avoid ongoing fatal damage from Carl Icahn, who is in no small part responsible for the situation which TWA now finds itself, and who has claimed he is willing to provide economic support to other interested parties.

• Advance a complete, fair and sound resolution, sparing those markets largely served by TWA from economic damage.

For these reasons, we submit that the offer from American Airlines to buy TWA’s assets satisfactorily crosses the threshold and meets the criteria outlined above. It is an example of the complete, fair and sound solution we seek. We applaud American for coming forward with this proposal that recognizes the tremendous value of TWA.

In particular, American Airlines Chief Executive Officer Donald Carty has specifically committed in testimony before this committee “to hire all of TWA’s employees and to continue a hub operation in St. Louis.” We note especially and favorably Mr. Carty’s statement before the Senate Judiciary Committee on February 7 in which he stated, “We look forward to adding TWA’s 20,000 employees to the American Airlines family. We are keenly aware of TWA’s illustrious history and know that were it not for the hard work and great performance of the people throughout TWA, they would not be the perfect fit for American that we believe they are.”

Other bids for TWA’s assets are possible, but it is unlikely that any other proposal will be presented that will protect employees, retirees and customers. TWA’s financial weakness has been no secret, and during the months when, prior to bankruptcy, TWA management sought buyers, only American came forward.

We respectfully urge the committee to support the type of complete, fair and sound solution that we seek—a solution that fully addresses the interests of all parties from employees to creditors, consumers and communities; that is fair to all parties and, most important, is sound, ensuring a smooth transition from the TWA of today to a new and more promising future for all concerned.

Then came 9/11.

Obviously there are excerpts that could be used for or against actual occurrences.

Respectfully-

Bob H

I'm not very good at this link stuff but here is one that I use to research documents.

document links

Mr. Bob Herbst:

You always present media in a way that supports your personal views and biases against the former MEC because of your underlying bitter sentiment regarding the OZ/TWA merger.

I do not see any signatures on the initial ALPA document ( http://www.senate.gov/~commerce/hearings/0201twa.pdf )that ties any former MEC member to those views. It is known of public record that in **fact** ALPA was in active engagement of recruiting the APA to become represented by ALPA. It is know of public record that ALPA acting in such a manner when they were in **fact** current representatives of the TWA Pilots constituted a conflict of interest. Given that these conditions existed, it is evident in the eyes of a neutral examiner that in **fact** ALPA was using the TWA pilots that they represented as a pawn to get APA into their dues coffers.

I suggest that you look at the **facts** and quit trying to sell out your union brothers and sisters as ALPA did.

Fraternally

John Thompson

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Bob H
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FO Thompson-

Sorry- I have zero interest in participating in your, IMO, on-going political non-sense.

The recorded documents can speak for themselves as each individual choosing to read them may make their own judgment.

May I suggest you ask Captain Pastore whom the signatory to the letter provided above was and exactly who the chairman of the "TWA Master Executive Council" was at the time of these Senate hearings.

Bob H

[ 04-10-2003, 09:35: Message edited by: Bob H ]

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MD80 Flyguy
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Bob,

Go get a life man! Sheessshhh

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Bewildered
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Two things are important to know about the "truth."
One is that the truth varies according to who tells the story.
The second is that no one really knows what happened.

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LATREAL
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quote:
Originally posted by Bewildered:
Two things are important to know about the "truth."
One is that the truth varies according to who tells the story.
The second is that no one really knows what happened.

That was the point I was trying to make. It only THE TRUTH when it backs whatever you believe or have been saying from the beginning. I could find many articles, letters, etc. that says the opposite of this and post it as "The Truth At Last" also. [Roll Eyes]
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L1011Ret
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There are two big HUGE differences in opinions about the truth of these matters that make for huge divergence in opinion. First, Bob Pastore was there. He was a participant in the process and attended TWA BOD meetings. None of the rest of us were there or participated in the process so our interpretations of events are based upon stuff we have picked up second hand subject to whatever spin people wish to put upon them. His chronicling of events is based upon his personal experience of events. Second, Bob has gone on public record by sending the letter to Senator Hutchinson. It is likely that he therefore will have to testify to what he has written to Senator Hutchinson. None of the rest of us can so testify because we were not there and we have no first hand knowledge of what occurred. Additionally, I believe it is likely that his testimony will be stubstantiated by the testimony of others who were there. To go on record with false statements about events risks a lot for anyone who makes such statements. Knowing Bob from the past, I can sincerely state that it is highly unlikely that he would place himself in the risky position of testifying falsely.
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B-757-200
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It's okay, let the AA people believe what they want to believe.

Just like Arabs only believing what Al-Jezeera tells them; it must be true.

Hitler always said: "The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it."

APA and APFA had better propaganda machines than the Third Reich could have ever hoped for.
 -

[ 04-10-2003, 12:48: Message edited by: B-757-200 ]

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L1011Ret
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I agree B 757-200. The real shock will be when they have to deal with the consequences of holding on to information that can have negative effects upon them and that they never bothered to investigate for themselves. That responsibility is on them.
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Bob H
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To anyone interested-

My comments and links above were intended for one and one reason only.

That is to defend the actions Bill Compton made in Dec/Jan 00/01 as the ONLY viable actions he had available to protect the careers, as much as possible, for 21,000 former TWA employees.

Respectfully-

Bob H

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LATREAL
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quote:
Originally posted by L1011Ret:
I agree B 757-200. The real shock will be when they have to deal with the consequences of holding on to information that can have negative effects upon them and that they never bothered to investigate for themselves. That responsibility is on them.

So if the responsibilty is on them why are you guys so worried about it. Sounds to me like you really don't believe it and are trying to convince yourselfs that something is being hiden.
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Jeff I.
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Bob -

I don't necessarily see an egregious inconsistency in the fact that Pastore stood with his CEO and the TWA BOD less than a month after the announcement in support of the deal and with his comments now revealing what took place behind the scenes. Those tumultuous few weeks following the announcement saw a frenzy of activity with lots of pressure being exerted on politicians, TWA employees and others to line up in support of it so that the deal could be ramrodded through without significant oversight.

Although I wasn't in favor of the deal from the start, I understand and respect all of those who stood behind their commanding officer (or CEO) when they were being told (and sold on the idea) that this was in their best interests.

With plenty of distance now from those heady days, with lots of promises broken, thousands of TWA employees without a livelihood, I think testimony from the principals involved in the deal is warranted. Of course, I'd also like to see some discovery with a subpoena issued for documents, e-mails, etc. but, short of that, I'd be most interested in seeing Gerry Gitner testify under oath.

For those who support Compton in all of this --- who knows, perhaps a further looking into the facts might better clear his reputation if it were shown (as Keho suggested) that this deal was thrown on him at the last minute by Gitner and other members of the board who had been dealing with AA separately.

I don't know ..... there is plenty of speculation on all sides. To read an account like that of Pastore is certainly interesting. It is hard for me to believe that a retired and distinguished TWA pilot would fabricate these fairly damning facts.

At the same time, as I said, I would love to hear testimony from other principals. The fact that thousands of livelihoods were lost, even more shareholders were left with nothing (in what I still consider to be a highly cynical move to satisfy AA's requirement to abrogate Karabu) and other unresolved issues remain --- warrants, in my opinion, some sort of inquiry whether it takes the form of a Congressional inquiry or a civil lawsuit.

Respectfully,

Jeff I.

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I Miss the Sperrys
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob H:

As I've noted earlier.. The TW F/A's were the only TW labor group who were entirely 100% stapled to a "universal" F/A seniority list with no real protections from the future downsizing and virtually little in the way of opportunities when AA goes back into a growth mode. [/QB]

What about the former TWA agents? They, too, are also at the very bottom.
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Jeff I.
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quote:
Originally posted by I Miss the Sperrys:
quote:
Originally posted by Bob H:

As I've noted earlier.. The TW F/A's were the only TW labor group who were entirely 100% stapled to a "universal" F/A seniority list with no real protections from the future downsizing and virtually little in the way of opportunities when AA goes back into a growth mode.

What about the former TWA agents? They, too, are also at the very bottom. [/QB]
Although they weren't part of the deal and not promised anything, I also knew more than a few managers who had given 20+ years to TWA at relatively low salaries at places like JFK, LGA, DCA, etc. who were thrown to the wind in the deal.

Jeff I.

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L1011Ret
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A couple of thoughts. Bill Compton has received less anger on these and other BBs than perhaps any other player involved in the AA-TWA acquisition. I worked for him when he was MEC Chairman. My impression was that he was an honorable, highly capable and competent man. I tend to believe he did what he thought best for the TWA employees at the time. Further, I think he might have some second thoughts based on what has happened since. But that is only speculation on my part.
Second, I think it would be important for anyone who has a stake of any kind in these ongoing issues to know as much about the truth as possible. Better decisions result from verifable information. I tend to think Bob Pastore's account is better than any of ours by far.
Third, I have seen the document request in one of the many lawsuits about this process. Unfortunately, few including me are likely to see the results of the document requests. Then it is likely there will be depositions and we will not know much about these either. At some point in the legal process, the plaintiffs are likely to put forth a list of "facts" not in dispute. Of course the defandants will dispute some of the "facts not in dispute." The parties will agree on some and others will be contested. Since these are public documents, we may get to see what is in dispute. Overall it will be awhile before we have a better sense about what really happened. There will also be witness lists put together. I have not seen the witness lists so I do not know if Gitner is on them. I do not know how he might impact any of these suits but I'm sure we would all be interested to know about his role in the acquisition.
Lastly, there are the agents. I do not know much about what happened to them. I had agent friends at JFK and LGA and though they were long time TWA employees, I have lost contact with all of them. I've never seen any working AA LGA or JFK gates so I supposed they were let go. Unfortunate, because most were of high quality.

[ 04-10-2003, 14:42: Message edited by: L1011Ret ]

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Don Capt Skypig Foldy
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It must be realized that some people advance their "perspective", and cherry-pick supporting comments, documents, and the like, to SAVE THEIR OWN ARSES!!!!!!!!
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LATREAL
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quote:
Originally posted by Don Capt Skypig Foldy:
It must be realized that some people advance their "perspective", and cherry-pick supporting comments, documents, and the like, to SAVE THEIR OWN ARSES!!!!!!!!

Exactly! [Wink]
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Laertal
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quote:
Originally posted by LATREAL:
Exactly! [Confused]

Isn't it time for a diaper change in the daycare center?

[Roll Eyes]

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LATREAL
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quote:
Originally posted by None of your business:
quote:
Originally posted by LATREAL:
Exactly! [Confused]

Isn't it time for a diaper change in the daycare center?

[Roll Eyes]

Its not open yet, PM me your number and I'll let you know. But for now you are going to have to walk around soiled. [Wink]
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