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Topic: B-717-300X
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Subsonic Transport
Post Captain
Member # 2139
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posted
The following article is clipped from Air Transport World posted on Friday Sept 19th.
Boeing proposes 717 stretch Dateline: Friday September 19, 2003
Having failed to generate launch interest in a shorter variant of the 717 targeting the regional jet market, Boeing now is proposing a stretch of the slow-selling jet providing seating for an additional 24 passengers in a typical two-class configuration.
The 717-300X, which "has been offered to several airlines," would be available in the second half of 2006 and involves a 14 ft. stretch of the 717-200 airframe from 124 ft. to 138.3 ft., increasing seating from 106 to 130. The variant would have higher maximum takeoff and space-limited payload weights and a higher-thrust engine. Boeing also would add a service door behind the wing. In that size range, the dash 300X, if launched, would compete against the 737-700 as well as the A319 but would resolve a dilemma for potential 717-200 customers--the lack of a growth variant.--PF
************************************************** I really hope they follow through with this variant. As I've stated before I'm bored with all the wing mounted twins. They're everywhere. They maybe efficient as hell but there are too many of them. And now the ERJ170. This thing is a tinker toy. It makes the A318 look like a widebody almost. See the follow link where the A318 is sitting with the ERJ and Airtrans 717.
Why can't Boeing push the stretch faster than 2006? Comparison photo [ 09-20-2003, 09:04: Message edited by: Subsonic Transport ]
Posts: 407 | From: Buffalo, NY
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AHP
Post Captain
Member # 1710
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posted
Subsonic, I just did a web search on length of the current MD-80's and it is around 147 feet. I believe AA puts 129 folks into that 147 feet. I have never been on a 717, is it basically a shorter MD-80 or is it totally different? I was on an MD-87 once and it appeared to be a shorter MD-80, with maybe different engines.
Posts: 80
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Subsonic Transport
Post Captain
Member # 2139
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posted
Truth be told I'm not up on which MD80 variant is what lenght and what they hold. I seem to remember that CO's MD's held 141. Seat pitch, cabin layout and First Class will certainly determine how many pax it can hold.
How many did TWA's MD's hold during Comfort Class operations?
Posts: 407 | From: Buffalo, NY
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MrMarky
Post Captain
Member # 635
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posted
I'll try to help if my memory holds up. The MD-87 is a shortened version of the MD-88. The MD-88 is a MD-82/83 with a glass cockpit. Delta retrofitted all their MD-80's to MD-88's. Reno flew a few MD-87's. The MD-87 is about the same length as a DC-9-30.
The 717 is not the same thing. The 717 is actually an MD-95 (the name changed when Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas), which is a shortened version of the MD-90, but with other changes in addition such as the BMW-RR engines, whereas I think the MD-90 uses IAE engines.
The MD-90 incorporated a host of technical advancements over the previous MD-80 airframe and engines. It was also a little longer than an MD-80.
The MD-95/717 uses the same basic airframe as all DC-9/MD-80 derivatives, incorporates all kinds of improvements to interior, avionics, engines, air conditioning, lavs, etc, etc. It amounts to an extensive update which brought the aircraft up to current modern build standards in an attempt to remain competitive and keep selling them, as opposed to the dramatically higher cost of developing an entirely new airplane.
Sounds like the 717-300 would be around DC-9-50 size or a little longer, but shorter than an MD-80.
The 717 is a great airplane for the short range routes it was design for. The original DC-9 airframe has evolved much like the 737. You now have 737-900's with nearly as many seats as a 757-200 can hold. But inside you wouldn't even reconginize a 737-700/800/900 as a 737. The interior redesign makes it very similar to a 757, with video systems, all-glass cockpits, 767 style lavs and everything else.
They are now being used extensively for E-TOPS operations, too. I was on a CO 737-800 two weeks ago and it was E-TOPS certified. Aloha flies 737-700's from California to Hawaii and the new models have even been certified for trans Atlantic, with I believe Lufthansa leading the way using one converted to an all executive class arrangement. The 737-900 fusalage comes in at about the same length as a 707, give or take a foot or two.
The 737NG's also have an interesting improvement to the overwing emergency exits. They're hinged at the top and spring out and up, rather than completly removing them and then figuring out what to do with it.
Hope this helps.
Marky
Posts: 434 | From: Concourse C
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TWAnr
Post Captain
Member # 166
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posted
OK, mAArky,
You made me go to the Boeing site to get the scoop ( Boeing Commercial Airplanes):
quote: DC-9 Family
There are five basic DC-9 versions, designated Series 10, Series 20, Series 30, Series 40 and Series 50. Several models in each series provide operators maximum efficiency for diverse combinations of traffic density, cargo volume and route distances to more than 2,000 miles (3,218 km). All models use variants of the reliable workhorse Pratt & Whitney JT8D engine.
Series 10: The first in the twinjet family, the fuselage length of the Series 10 DC-9 is 104.4 feet (31.8 m), accommodating up to 90 passengers with 600 cubic feet (16.9 m3) of cargo space below the floor. Wingspan is 89.4 feet (27.2 m). Engines can be JT8D-5s or JT8D-7s, with takeoff thrust ratings up to 14,000 pounds.
Series 20: The DC-9 Series 20, although numbered second in the sequence of models, actually is the fourth member of the family. This high-performance version was announced in December 1966, and the first delivery was made in December 1968. The Series 20 is designed for operation from very short runways. It combines the fuselage of the DC-9 Series 10 with a high-lift wing developed for the Series 30. Power is provided by two JT8D-9s with 14,500 pounds thrust each, or 15,000-pound JT8D-11s.
Series 30: Fuselage of the Series 30 DC-9, actually second developed, is nearly 15 feet longer than the Series 10, at 119.3 feet (36.3 m), providing seats for up to 115 passengers and cargo space to 895 cubic feet (25.3 m3). Series 30 wingspan was increased to 93.3 feet (28.4 m), and a high-lift wing system of leading edge slats gives the Series 30 excellent short-field performance. The first of the type began airline service in February 1967. Most of the Series 30s are powered by either JT8D-7 or JT8D-9 engines. Others are equipped with JT8D-11 or the JT8D-15, with 15,500 pounds of thrust. The Series 30 is the most widely used member of the DC-9 family, accounting for approximately 60 percent of the entire fleet.
Series 40: To again meet airline demands for a DC-9 with more capacity, the Series 40 was developed with a fuselage length of 125.6 feet (38.3 m). Seating is available for up to 125 passengers, 10 more than the popular Series 30s. Below-floor cargo space totals 1,019 cubic feet (28.8 m3). The Series 40 uses the same wing as the Series 30. Series 40 engines are JT8D-9s, JT8D-11s or JT8D-15s. The model entered service in March 1968.
Series 50: The fifth and largest DC-9 version is extended to 133.6 feet (40.7 m) long, permitting installation of five more rows of seats than the Series 30. Maximum passenger capacity is up to 139, with cargo capacity increased similarly. Wingspan is the same as for the Series 30. Engines are either JT8D-15s or JT8D-17s, which are rated at 16,000 pounds. Airline operations with the Series 50 began in August 1975.
All Models: Common to all versions of the DC-9 are the features that make them ideal for short- and medium-range flights providing direct service between small or large airports. All have built-in boarding stairs for use where jetways are not available. The low ground clearance puts the lower deck cargo bays at waist height, to allow loading and unloading without a conveyor or loading platform. The cockpit is designed for a two-member crew.
Passenger cabins of the DC-9s are designed for optimum passenger comfort and convenience. Economy class seating is five across -- an arrangement consistently preferred in passenger surveys to the six-across seating in other single-aisle jetliners. A "wide look" interior introduced in 1973 provides a greater feeling of spaciousness than in earlier models and offers enclosed overhead racks for carry-on bags.
quote: BOEING MD-80
The Boeing MD-80, a quiet, fuel-efficient twinjet, was certified by the Federal Aviation Administration in August 1980 and entered airline service in October 1980. Its Pratt & Whitney JT8D-200 engines, combined with its efficient aerodynamic design, allow the MD-80 to meet all current noise regulations while producing operating costs among the lowest in commercial aviation.
Four MD-80 models-the MD-81, MD-82, MD-83, and MD-88, are 147 feet, 10 inches (45.08 meters) long and accommodate a maximum of 172 passengers. The MD-87 is 130.4 feet (39.76 m) in length, with a maximum passenger capacity of 139. Wingspan for all models is 107 feet, 10 inches (32.88 m). The MD-80 was produced at the Long Beach Division of Boeing Commercial Airplanes until December 1999.
The MD-80's nonstop range is from 1,500 to 2,700 statute miles (2,410 to 4,345 kilometers), depending on the model. The MD-81's maximum takeoff weight is 140,000 pounds (63,503 kg); the MD-82's and the MD-88's are 149,500 pounds (67,812 kg). The longer range MD-83 has a takeoff weight of 160,000 pounds (72,575 kg). The MD-87's maximum takeoff gross weight is 140,000 pounds (63,503 kg), with an option to 149,500 pounds (67,812 kg).
quote: BOEING MD-90
The Boeing MD-90 is an advanced mid-size, medium-range airliner that serves the needs of travelers and airlines today and well into the 21st century. The aircraft, one of the quietest large commercial jetliners in the skies, belongs to the twinjet family of aircraft that started with the DC-9 and includes the Boeing 717 and MD-80.
The MD-90 retains the popular five-abreast interior arrangement and offers travelers high comfort levels and low interior noise levels. The passenger-pleasing innovation features wide seats, fewer center seats and more aisle and window seats.
Other features of the MD-90 include an advanced interior design, vacuum lavatories, new electrical and auxiliary power systems, an upgraded digital environmental control system, lightweight carbon brakes with digital anti-skid system, and significant improvements to the aircraft hydraulic system.
The MD-90 has an overall length of 152 feet, 7 inches (46.5 m) and a wing span of 107 feet, 10 inches (32.87 m). The fuselage provides a cargo volume of 1,300 cubic feet (36.8 cu m). Long-range cruising speed is Mach 0.76, or approximately 500 mph (812 km/hr).
The MD-90-30, with a maximum takeoff gross weight of 156,000 pounds (70,760 kg), will carry 155 passengers, in a typical mixed-class interior arrangement, approximately 2,400 statute miles. The MD-90-30ER increases the maximum gross weight to 166,000 pounds, providing a range increase to 2,500 statute miles, or, with the addition of a 565-gallon auxiliary fuel tank, an increase to 2,750 statute miles.
With a takeoff thrust of 25,000 pounds, the MD-90-30 can use runway as short as 5,000 feet (1,524 m) on a typical 550-statute-mile (885 km) operation with a full passenger load. At the maximum takeoff gross weight, the MD-90-30 requires only 7,100 feet (2,165 m) of runway. A 28,000-pound optional takeoff thrust rating is available for operators in need of special takeoff performance.
quote: Boeing 717-200
The standard 717-200 has a two-class configuration with 106 seats. Its passenger-pleasing interior features a five-across-seating arrangement in economy class, with illuminated handrails and large overhead stowbins.
The two-crew flight deck incorporates the industry's most modern and proven avionics technology, configured around six interchangeable liquid-crystal-display units and advanced Honeywell VIA 2000 computer systems similar to those in other new Boeing jetliners.
Flight deck features include an Electronic Instrument System, a dual Flight Management System, a Central Fault Display System, and Global Positioning System. Category IIIb automatic landing capability for bad-weather operations and Future Air Navigation Systems are available.
Two advanced Rolls-Royce 715 high-bypass-ratio engines power the 717. The engine is rated at 18,500 to 21,000 pounds of takeoff thrust, with lower fuel consumption and significantly lower noise and emission levels than the power plants on comparable airplanes.
The 717 wing span is 93.3 feet (28.4 meters) and overall length is 124 feet (37.8 meters). Maximum takeoff weight for the 717 is 110,000 pounds (49, 895 kg). Nonstop range goes up to 1,647 statute miles (1,430 n.mi. / 2,645 km).
quote: Proposed 717-300X
The 717-300X would be138.3 ft. (42.2 m) long, compared to 124 ft. (37.8 m) for the -200. The -300X would have higher maximum take-off and space limited payload weights, and greater engine thrust than the -200. The -300X also would have a service door behind the wing.
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MrMarky
Post Captain
Member # 635
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posted
TWAnr,
Thanks for posting all the facts and figures. It seems this series of aircraft gets more and more complex. I guess the only question left is which one should we buy?
Take care,
Marky
Posts: 434 | From: Concourse C
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Jeff I.
Post Captain
Member # 2334
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posted
Marky -
This ..... one of the many weighty decisions that will confront you as CEO of FLAG. Best of luck with your fleet decisions. For what it is worth, my vote is to go out on a limb and bet heavy on the 717 line ....
Jeff I.
Posts: 482 | From: New York
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