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Author Topic: TWA 800 ON HISTORY CH.
mioguido
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the history channel is running the TWA 800 story tonight at 10 pm eastern. sorry for such a short notice.
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extwacaptain
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Dan-

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. If some of you miss it this evening, I believe it will be on several times on the History Channel.

Randy

p.s. Thanks for the call...always good to hear from you! [Wink]

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mioguido
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the program about TWA 800 carried various ideas about the cause of the crash. i found my 1 hour of viewing well worth my time.
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757man
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At 10PM eastern Monday nite the 4th of October. There was a program about Lincoln on the History channel. Never could find it.


quote:
Originally posted by mioguido:
the history channel is running the TWA 800 story tonight at 10 pm eastern. sorry for such a short notice.


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757man
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There was no TWA 800 program at 10PM Eastern in Florida on 10/04/04. Only About Pres.Lincoln. That was Monday nite. Never was on schedule.


quote:
Originally posted by mioguido:
the history channel is running the TWA 800 story tonight at 10 pm eastern. sorry for such a short notice.


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Goodyear_26
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Jim

I saw it in TPA on Sunday night at 2200.

Interesting in that it presented different scenarios, some of which I learned about for the first time. But basically the same story we've seen before.

Frank

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mioguido
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quote:
Originally posted by 757man:
[QB] There was no TWA 800 program at 10PM Eastern in Florida on 10/04/04. Only About Pres.Lincoln. That was Monday nite. Never was on schedule.

i made my post a few minutes past 9 pm on Sunday, Oct. 3rd. why the post shows Oct. 4th ?....i have no idea.
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Life_Platinum
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During the last few weeks there were a number of articles in the NYC about TWA 800. The story that Mio Guido noted, a half page article in the NY Magazine, and two small articles in the NY Times. I wonder where the investigation is going?
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nyc6035
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For years I've wanted the truth to come out about 800...for the families and to honor the memories of those that were lost.

That said, this morning, reading this thread I suddenly asked myself the question...seeing all that we've seen in the fall of 2001...what would be the harm in government finally admitting that the first large impact act of international terrorism on domestic soil actually took place in July of 1996 instead of September 2001?

Then I got to thinking about the second question....how would the american (flying) public react to the thought that terrorists have (and have had) the capability to shoot down a domestic airliner at their whim?

And then the third question...could the airline industry withstand this sort of disclosure?

And finally the forth question...what about all of the people who rely on the industry to feed thier families?

I wonder...are we better off just thinking we know what happenned vs. actually having confirmation?

I don't pretend to have the answers to these questions...but I guess it is food for thought.

Mike

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gambit3131
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The next showings of:
Conspiracy? "TWA Flight 800" Witnesses to a passenger jet's explosion describe seeing lights streaking across the sky toward the plane.

Fri 10/8 10:00 PM
Sat 10/9 2:00 AM
Sun 10/10 6:00 PM

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Franklin
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TWA Flight 800: Attacked, destroyed, covered-up
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: October 7, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern

Editor's note: In his extraordinary new DVD documentary, "Mega Fix," Emmy-award-winning filmmaker Jack Cashill traces the roots of Sept. 11 to the political exploitation of terror investigations by the Clinton White House in the desperate 1995-1996 election cycle. This 8-part series began in Oklahoma City and today moves to the coast of Long Island.

The "Mega Fix" DVD is available now at WorldNetDaily's online store.

© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com


On July 17, 1996 – Liberation Day in Saddam's Iraq and two days before the Atlanta Olympics – at least 270 people see streaking objects zigzagging off the horizon and culminating in the destruction of TWA Flight 800 off the south coast of Long Island.

At the time of the crash, Richard Clarke is serving as chairman of the Coordinating Security Group on terrorism. Within 30 minutes of the plane's crash, Clarke tells us, he convenes a meeting of the CSG in the White House situation room.

"The FAA," Clarke reports, is "at a total loss for an explanation. The flight path and the cockpit communications were normal. The aircraft climbed to 17,000 feet, then there was no aircraft."

In fact, the Federal Aviation Administration does have an explanation. Its radar operators in New York saw on their screens an unknown object "merging" with TWA 800 in the seconds before the crash and rushed the radar data to Washington. For reasons that will become clear later, Clarke also deceives the reader about the altitude of TWA 800. The last altitude the FAA actually recorded was about 13,700 feet. This is easily verified and beyond debate.

And remember the concept of planes as bombs, Ramzi Yousef and the Bojinka-related plot? President Clinton, in fact, reviews these plans in the summer of 1996, after TWA Flight 800 has been destroyed. U.S. Air Force Col. Buzz Patterson, who carried the "nuclear football" for the president, relates in his book, "Dereliction of Duty," that he was returning a daily intelligence update from the president's desk to the National Security Council when he notices the heading "Operation Bojinka." He keys on a reference to "a plot to use commercial airliners as weapons." As a pilot, he has a keen interest in the same.

Beyond doubt, Clinton is aware of the potential use of planes as bombs in the summer of 1996, but he does nothing about it. Patterson also tentatively identifies Deputy National Security Adviser and political consigliore Sandy Berger as the one person holed up on the night of July 17 with Clinton in the family quarters. No document could be more damaging to the Clinton legacy than Clinton's handwritten notes on Bojinka and related plans. Pilfering these might be worth the risk of getting caught.

August 1996

About four weeks after the crash, based on his own rough timeline, Richard Clarke visits the site of the TWA 800 investigation on Long Island. There he casually stops to talk to a technician, who shares with Clarke the astounding fact that, despite all evidence to the contrary, an exploding fuel tank destroyed TWA Flight 800.

That same day, Clarke tells us he returns to Washington and breathlessly shares his exploding fuel tank theory with Chief of Staff Leon Panetta and NSA Director Tony Lake, even sketching the 747 design.

"Does the NTSB agree with you?" Lake asks Clarke.

"Not yet," says Clarke. In one chance stroll through the hangar, the amateur Clarke discovers something the National Transportation Safety Board has not yet discovered itself.

Clarke then adds the telling comment: "We were all cautiously encouraged." They are "encouraged" because the political people do not want to face the consequences of terrorism. It could derail their cakewalk to re-election.

At this same time in the investigation, however, the FBI is ignoring the politics. Its agents are telling the New York Times that explosive residue has been found throughout the plane and especially along the right wing. Plus, the FBI's Washington lab has identified the residue as PETN, a component of either missiles or bombs. The same Times article calls the finding "a serious blow to the already remote possibility that a mechanical accident caused the crash."

Something has to give, and it's the FBI. On Aug. 22, future 9-11 commissioner Jamie Gorelick – as the Clintons' deputy attorney general she was also field commander at Oklahoma City – summons the FBI's Jim Kallstrom to Washington for a Come-to-Jesus meeting.

Kallstrom has been a good soldier the past five weeks. He's kept all talk of eyewitnesses and satellites and radar and missiles out of the news. But the evidence has led him to a terrorist scenario of some sort, and there's no easy way to turn back.

No account of the meeting provides any more than routine detail, but behaviors begin to change immediately, especially after the New York Times breaks a headline story the next day, top right, above the fold – "Prime Evidence Found That Device Exploded in Cabin of Flight 800." This article steals the thunder from Clinton's election-driven approval of welfare reform in that same day's paper and threatens to undermine the whole peace and prosperity mantra of the Democratic convention just days away.

From this point on, the administration spends all its energies making Clarke's exploding fuel tank theory stick. When the FBI is forced to change its story, so does the New York Times. And America lets its guard down once more.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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extwacaptain
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Mike,

If indeed that plane was shot down, and I believe that it was, imagine how this knowledge would (should) have affected our ability to prepare for, and possibly even prevent, something like 9-11 from ever happening.

The five years between those two events would have allowed for the creation of a "real" security system, instead of a hastily thrown together large number of individuals checking baggage at our airports.

IF, and that is a big one, our accident investigators were denied access to some of the information and evidence available, as reported, this was unforgivable.

Since the first accident or loss of an airplane, many have spent great effort attempting to find "The Probable Cause". The search has always been for the truth.

I agree with you that possibly it would have been extremely difficult for many of us to accept the fact that this could have happened in our land in the year 1996. The real wake-up call came 5 years later.


Randy

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nyc6035
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Capt. Randy,

Thanks for your perspective. To be clear, I certainly didn't want to suggest that the work of Ray Lahr, or the Admiral or any of the other folks who have put their necks out on the line to find the truth are in any way wrong for looking for the truth...there's is an important and noble undertaking.

You are also correct in suggesting that precious time was lost in preparing our national defense against the horrors of Sept 2001 by not coming to terms with (if it is true) that we were first struck in 1996.

I wish however I shared your optimism that this valuable time would have been used constructively to foil the 2001 attacks. I'm not certain that the bureaucracy within the beltway would have been able to see much beyond the immediate (and obvious) danger that the acknowledgement of a missile attack in 1996 would have meant. I can imagine that over-water flight patterns might have been curtailed under 15,000ft and that Coast Guard Patrols might have been increased. I think it's a safe bet that a public 'panic' appeasing remedy of retrofitting commercial aircraft with some sort of 'anti-missile flare' system would have been mandated by the FAA. These things I can see...because they were immediate and obvious responses to the event. I'm not sure the imagination or the fortitude would have existed to improve airport security by making that a federal responsibility...just as today we don't seem to have the fortitude to make the tough call to close or fortify the defenses of nuclear plants near large metropolitan areas. There's a lack of imagination on the part of the government to see the dangers that are directly in front of us with an enemy that has shown imagination and resolve in finding ways to hit us where it hurts. I guess some will say there is not enough money to protect every place everywhere all the time. $200B spent on Iraq vs less than $20B on homeland security over the last couple of years would seem to suggest otherwise.

I do hope that someday soon we are able to talk with certainty about the truth of what happened on TW800. The families deserve that. The memories of those that were lost deserve that closure. (And on a smaller consolation level I'm sure the mechanics from MCI & JFK would sleep just a little bit better knowing the truth).

I do however hope that when the truth is revealed that the reaction of the public at large is such that the industry, such as it exists today, is not forced to engage in further gut wrenching shrinkage in order to survive the fallout.

Mike

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Skyking
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I watched the History Channel documentary. It covered most of the theories about TWA800.

I cringed as NTSB pit bull, Bernard Loeb, rejected a missile/bomb theory for lack of physical evidence, and at the same time embraced a mechanical malfunction theory with no physical evidence.

Ward

[ 10-08-2004, 07:44: Message edited by: Skyking ]

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Doug Boney
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Book you should read:
"First Strike:TWA 800 and the Attack on America"
by Jack Cashill and James Sanders

Doug

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757man
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On November 11 or Nov 12, the author Nelson Demille is releasing a fictional book based on TWA Flight 800. My publishing friends say it will probably be a best seller. Watch the book stores. It may result in a rekindling of onteestr on the reall TWA 800.

quote:
Originally posted by Doug Boney:
Book you should read:
"First Strike:TWA 800 and the Attack on America"
by Jack Cashill and James Sanders

Doug


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Paul Gerling
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The title is "Night Fall". They have it at my local library.
Paul Gerling

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gambit3131
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I watched Conspiracy? this weekend. This was the first time I heard the theory of the private plane and the Navy missle. I had heard about the Navy missle theory and always wondered what and why.

I agree with SkyKing about Loeb's assessment. How can he totally deny one theory due to lack of evidence and fully back another theory with the same amount of evidence. The one thing they did say was that the NTSB was not allowed to approach any of the aircraft parts until the FBI were finished with them. That may be standard procedure, but still sounds fishy to me and leaves a lot of doubt in the investigation.

This has been said many times before. I do not know how they can discount all the eyewitnesses including the Air National Guard pilot.

One thing I remember well from the incident is that President Clinton was on the TV about what had happened within a few hours of it happening. At the time, I didn't think anything of this. However, after the Alaskan incident he never made an appearance. That's when I thought it was strange. ???

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extwacaptain
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Rather interesting article, with many, many, links.



http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40858

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TWAPRA
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The evening of this incident I was aboard a flt out of DCA. The first thing I heard when we touched down was that we had lost flt 800. I watched the news the rest of the night and returned to my job the next morning. Around 7:30 that morning my boss walked in and sat down looking very troubled. He then told me that last night his Wife was at a friends home for a TupperWare party. During the party the homeowners Son called in tears and told that his Naval ship had accidently shot down a commercial airliner! This call came almost immediately after the incident not after various theories, pictures of missles, etc. came out. My boss was a tried to get someone to talk to this sailor but I don't believe he had any success??????????
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gambit3131
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The show did say that there was excessive naval activity in the area like they have never seen before. The critics all say that a shoulder fired missle could not reach the altitude that Flt 800 was at. They also stated it was not an act of terrorism. I would hate to think it was friendly fire.

However, they did state that they did an inventory off all naval ships in the are and all missles where accounted for.

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extwacaptain
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July 3, 1988, We shot down an Iran Air commercial Airliner. It was mistaken for a fighter. It is safe to say THAT missile actually "was accounted for".

During the years when we were not certain what "IS" is, maybe "accounted for" had many meanings. (Maybe one or two missiles had been 'slightly' used.)

Randy

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exTWALAX
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Does anyone know what happened to the lawsuit that was filed about TW800 documents? The last I heard it was to be in a Los Angeles court on 9/27. I can't find the site the info was on, but I seem to remember that Lloyd Mielke, MCI engineering was involved in this.
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Irish
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From www.raylahr.com

Hearing Update – 9/27/04

On September 27, at the motion for partial summary judgment filed by the NTSB, Judge Matz did not rule on the NTSB's motion, but rather instructed the parties to jointly submit a list of the FOIA requests still at issue, along with the parties' respective positions, following a form distributed by the judge. This form is due to be filed, jointly by both sides, by October 25th.

Judge Matz will allow the NTSB to submit, not later than October 12th, an additional affidavit from the Boeing Company regarding its claim of proprietary information. Two weeks thereafter, October 25th, plaintiff may submit an opposing affidavit.

Judge Matz also said that he is considering appointing an independent expert witness to assess the NTSB's claim of its inability to segregate Boeing information from the computer simulation.

Judge Matz also instructed the NTSB to submit to the court the records containing proprietary information in camera (under seal).

The judge did not permit the plaintiff to present his PowerPoint show, stating that he had already reviewed all of the material submitted by the plaintiff, including the videotapes of witness interviews, and the videotapes of the animations. Almost all of the contents of the PowerPoint show is contained on this website.

The hearing lasted slightly over one hour. The judge said that he did not know if it would schedule another hearing.

After the hearing some of the attendees stayed for an enjoyable debriefing on Olvero Street. We thank all of those who attended the hearing for showing their interest and support.

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exTWALAX
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Thanks for update. (Even tho this novice posted to wrong forum.)
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