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Author Topic: Is American Next?
Patschild05
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I was sitting in the car and Chicago Public Radio was on and like usual, they were talking about the U.S. Airways and the United suituations. Then they started talking about American Airlines, and they said that seven-thousand people at American were laid off. Could that be that they might be the next to go bankrupt like U.S. Airways?
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JFK Fleet Service
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No, no and in case you missed it the first time, NO.
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nyc6035
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If you assume AMR has access to $5B in Cash (including unencumbered aircraft), it would take AMR about 1111 days to run out of cash at the $4.5M daily burn rate I recently heard.
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donuway
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quote:
Originally posted by nyc6035:
If you assume AMR has access to $5B in Cash (including unencumbered aircraft), it would take AMR about 1111 days to run out of cash at the $4.5M daily burn rate I recently heard.


I saw that, and it sounds good,,,but then I thought,,, if the INDUSTRY is so depressed,, Who is going to buy all of those planes? An asset is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

I have to go back and look at some stuff I saw. I thought I saw somewhere that AA had about 9 billion in worth when they bought TWA. Now assuming they put TWA assets on the books for what they PAID for them, They would still be equal after the deal. I thought when I started adding up all of the net worth that AA had in the last few days announcements, it was still around 9 billion? How do you loose 3.5 billion since the approximate time of the TWA deal, and still be worth the same?

Maybe it's assets instead of worth and im not seeing all of it? Anyone know?

I have a lot full of auto lease turn ins here, (About 18). If im outta cash, and I can't move these, guess how long I'm in business? Ask United Airlines. Or do they LEASE all of their planes, like TWA did?

Don


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nyc6035
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Don,

In fairness I may have the $5B number wrong. Perhaps my memory isn't serving me as well as it used to

You're right about there needing to be a market for what you're selling. So the pain could come sooner rather than later.

The point I was looking to make is that at some point even AMR could find itself in a cash bind.

Regards,
Mike


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webmoonchild
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Unencumbered assets like planes and parts could as a last resort be used as collateral toward loans. The difference between AMR and UAL is in the capacity to borrow against assets. If a banker does not return your call you might start calling the bankruptcy attornies on the rolodex.
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donuway
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Mike,

I just looked again ,,and I think it was 6 Billion in planes alone and a few billion more in other unencumbered assets. As webmoonchild says, as long as the bankers will return your calls, it's a positive sign. I guess the finance guys at United had the BK lawyers as number 2 on the list of "Things to do today" after # 1 (bankers) didn't work.

We might be seeing "Buy here, pay here" airplane lots

Don


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Jeff Isenberg
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quote:
Originally posted by nyc6035:
Don,

In fairness I may have the $5B number wrong. Perhaps my memory isn't serving me as well as it used to

You're right about there needing to be a market for what you're selling. So the pain could come sooner rather than later.

The point I was looking to make is that at some point even AMR could find itself in a cash bind.

Regards,
Mike


Mike -

I don't know about your memory but I do know that this heat wave on the east coast has turned my brain to mush. I was in DC yesterday and walked around like a zombie. Then ..... got to my 5:00 train and found out the Acelas had been grounded. So ..... I was stuck on old Metroliner equipment and didn't get home until after 9:00.

When does Eagle start up out of LGA? I may end up back on planes if Amtrak continues to have Acela problems.

Sorry for the aside. Like I said, my brain is outtahere ....

Jeff I.


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nyc6035
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Jeff,

I hear what you're saying. I went out for lunch here downtown today...the asphalt on Broad Street seemed 'soft.'

I just took a look...you're going to need to wait until the weather cools a bit before heading out to LGA...October 1 is the start date.

Regards,
Mike


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Chris D.
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Ahhh, USAir....

I remember when USAir and Piedmont integrated...and compared to the TWA/AA integrations, their's was benign.

To this day, they hate each others guts ! And through, absenteeism, pilferage, and just plain hating each other, their company has failed.

I know the S.N. are going to say, that TWA was not furlough fodder-however every Major carrier has nearly a thousand pilots on the street. There are only 200 NAAtive pilots that are furloughed. These pilots hadn't even had their first interview with American when the Integration was announced. Shockingly, AA pilots were recalled and replaced on furloughed with TWA
pilots that had more years of service.

For the worms that say, they wouldn't have been affected if we had integrated date of hire method...you're dreaming.

The fact that S.N. are scabbing TWA flying in STL proves that the NAAtives are making a windfall, which wouldnt have been possible if there had been a fair and equitable integration.

Hmmm, will I put my family on a plane in STL where the F/O is a scab and is treated as such. Or rebook thru ORD/DFW where they run the risk of flying on an airline that has had numerous pilot-error hull losses. ORD/BDL/JFK/LIT/Cali...near miss SEA..I think you get the idea.

Welcome to the world of USAir/Piedmont...APA has once again led you down the path...and I can give you 45 million reasons why not to follow.

Thank you APA, for dividing; so we can conquer,
The Management


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Festus79
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Hey Chris,
Are we having a bad day...Poor baby!!

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AHP
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Chris D.,

You need to get a hobby and fast. What do you do, sit around your house drinking and living inside your mind? The world is round, not flat. Get a hobby, quick.


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JFK Fleet Service
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris D.:

Hmmm, will I put my family on a plane in STL where the F/O is a scab and is treated as such. Or rebook thru ORD/DFW where they run the risk of flying on an airline that has had numerous pilot-error hull losses. ORD/BDL/JFK/LIT/Cali...near miss SEA..I think you get the idea.



I get the idea that a piece of blue toilet paper stuck to the ramp has more class than you do.


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Bohica
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Chris,

A scab is someone who crosses a picket line.
As I don't see any picket lines, there can't be any scabs.

Therefore your whole post is bullshit.

Resubmit more appropriately, or set up a picket line.

Bohica


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webmoonchild
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If I told someone, they wouldn't believe me. Do me a favor, mister!! Join a union, walk a picket line in January, in Chicago for one day. Quit and come back and talk to me about scabs.

[ 11-24-2002: Message edited by: webmoonchild ]


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chrispy
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Actually scabs, you should know that scabs are anyone that replaces a union employee. Yes, TWA employess have informationally picketed...but I guess when you're head is sniffing the petunnas, you deny these things
..the only hobby I have taken up, is being as inefficient as the NAAtives..I will be furloughed like 2/3 of the other TWA employess out of seniority...thats ok..a 1 yr wonder will be flying you around...good luck...dont hurt the trees again.
I may be blue toilet paper, but you are known industry wide as the stinky scab shit that comes out of the lav service point...did you go to college for that, scab...try a code red, taliban.
Oh and one last point, like you even care about us, Festus, I'm having a bad day, because 1 yr wonder pilots are scabbing my job after 13 yrs...how nice..lemmie tell my friends to fly S.N. air where experience is not needed and accidents are a way of life...

It's amusing when I jumpseat, how the other airlines look at American as a bunch of jerks...but why should you guys care,,,you are the elite, the chosen master race....then the dream ended, when the you ran into something.

Fire away, but the industry knows of you, and looks at you in the light that your unions have treated the TWA employees. Thank a TWA employee. he/she was endured your furlough, scab.

[ 12-22-2002: Message edited by: chrispy ]


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Goodyear_26
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[ 12-24-2002: Message edited by: Goodyear_26 ]


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chrispy
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Hi web,

Join a union, walk a picket line in January, in Chicago for one day. Quit and come back and talk to me about scabs.

Try walking an unemployment line, while someone that was still interviewing at the date of transaction is replacing you...I'm not really sure going to the spouse and kids and telling them there is very little money for the Holidays would be any different in January or in Chicago.

Thank a TWA employee, their taking the hits.


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AHP
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Chrispy,

Sometimes when foks are so overwhelmed by events, and they are at a loss, they turn to the church. Good thoughts and peace provide solice in times of adversity. Good luck.

Al

[ 12-24-2002: Message edited by: AHP ]


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AHP
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[ 12-24-2002: Message edited by: AHP ]


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JFK Fleet Service
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You know, it's not even worth it.

[ 12-25-2002: Message edited by: JFK Fleet Service ]


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webmoonchild
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Hey Chrispy:
I am a TWA retiree. Who do I thank? And tell how many picket lines have you've manned to use the word "scab" so loosely?

[ 12-25-2002: Message edited by: webmoonchild ]

[ 12-25-2002: Message edited by: webmoonchild ]


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chrispy
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1 strike picket line 93'USAir Exp/ 2 info picket lines 93/98'

2 furloughes, this will be 3

And No, I wont be able to be a TWA retiree..enjoy it...I wont have that luxury..not in Chicago..not anywhere.


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