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Author
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Topic: Flight Attendant Shortage
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TWAnr
Post Captain
Member # 166
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posted
Title: Changes Have Been Whirlwind in Flight Service
quote:
Hi! This is Patrick O'Keeffe with a Flight Service Update for July 3, 2003.
This weekend is already shaping up to be a challenging operation. You may also notice flight attendant-qualified managers working trips this weekend due to the large amount of open time that is currently available. Many trips will operate at FAA minimums. For those of you impacted by the staffing shortages, I apologize. As we work to restore our airline to financial stability, it is very important that we avoid canceling trips because of staffing issues. Option 2 is open and available to flight attendants interested in picking up some extra time. We expect to return to normal coverage levels over the weekend.
What was left out of this hotline was that trips are being extended, reserves are being forced to fly on duty free periods and line holders are being drafted, on their days off, to work trips that are not in their original lines.
Posts: 782
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HAWKMAN
Post Captain
Member # 2039
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posted
How nice. And they just furloughed 1800 25-45+ year veterans. Perhaps they shouldn't have changed all the locks the night of 7/2/03. They are victims of their own bad karma. They are getting everything they deserve, as this is a mess of their own design.
MRS.HAWKMAN
(furloughed with 17 years)
Posts: 248 | From: SRQ
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B-757-200
Post Captain
Member # 430
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posted
Cee, what locks? Why would they do that?
Posts: 1278 | From: Los Angeles,Ca,USA
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HAWKMAN
Post Captain
Member # 2039
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posted
Apparently the doors to inflight and other key-pads got changed. What were they expecting? A riot? Their pAAranoia is getting the best of them.
MRS.HAWKMAN
(furloughed with 17 years)
[ 07-06-2003, 01:39: Message edited by: HAWKMAN ]
Posts: 248 | From: SRQ
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B-757-200
Post Captain
Member # 430
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posted
What a joke. AAmazing how this incompetent, inefficient and unproductive company stays in business.
Posts: 1278 | From: Los Angeles,Ca,USA
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TWA Fan 1
Post Captain
Member # 1926
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by B-757-200:
What a joke. AAmazing how this incompetent, inefficient and unproductive company stays in business.
Yes, it's pretty amazing. It's all due to one factor: Size.
AA has never once in its history scored highly in any customer service survey, in any category (on time performance, lost baggage, complaints, cancelled flights, friendly sevice).
And they don't care. Their attitude concerning any customer complaint: "We don't need you as a customer."
With an AAtitide like that it's not really a huge surprise that they've lost so much money...
Posts: 400 | From: Brooklyn, NY
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Bewildered
Post Captain
Member # 1294
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posted
This isn't a phenomena. Whenever there is a furlough the rank & file stop picking up open time.
Posts: 143 | From: Miami
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Draginitin
Post Captain
Member # 2324
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posted
Yes, it is amazing. Especially paying nearly a billion dollars outright (plus integration costs) for TWA at exactly the point they should have been cutting capacity instead of buying 25% more. Now look where we are. STL? Stick a fork in it, it's done.
Posts: 31
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webmoonchild
Post Captain
Member # 1477
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posted
If there are individuals that are resigning rather than flying out of STL, maybe they should start recalling to replace them.
Posts: 141 | From: MIA
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dustinthewind
Junior Poster
Member # 2468
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posted
Why are you so angry sir?
I know it is an awful situation but I have read some of your posts and you seem extremely agitated.
Nobody wanted this to happen, even evil AA(smirk).
But we all have to deal with it in our own ways.
Vent your energy into something constructive as this will not help.
quote:
Originally posted by B-757-200:
What a joke. AAmazing how this incompetent, inefficient and unproductive company stays in business.
Posts: 5 | From: LA
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B-757-200
Post Captain
Member # 430
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by dustinthewind:
Vent your energy into something constructive as this will not help.
That was'nt venting.
I was just merely stating the OBVIOUS facts. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 1278 | From: Los Angeles,Ca,USA
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Bewildered
Post Captain
Member # 1294
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posted
There is no shortage of flight attendants.
There are 2,000 of them walking the streets in STL trying to find work.
[ 07-18-2003, 18:24: Message edited by: Bewildered ]
Posts: 143 | From: Miami
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webmoonchild
Post Captain
Member # 1477
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posted
The bidsheet sucks, if it will make you feel better. AMR is touching everyone...Oh yeah, there was a suspicious fire in cabin service supply room in MIA. It was totaled. This thing can get uglier. Hang in there everyone.
Posts: 141 | From: MIA
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TWAnr
Post Captain
Member # 166
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by webmoonchild:
...Oh yeah, there was a suspicious fire in cabin service supply room in MIA. It was totaled. This thing can get uglier. Hang in there everyone.
I guess that American Airlines has beefed up security at the wrong airport.
The Saint Louis Police Department was hired to provide security at Lambert Field at the reported cost of $15,000 a week. There are two uniformed police officers present in each break room and the ramp is being patrolled by squad cars. Many members of the Lambert Airport Police are being laid off and they could not care less about potential vandalism.
Posts: 782
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AHP
Post Captain
Member # 1710
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posted
Is there an actual shortage of personnel, or has the lack of morale (sp?) caused those that are still working to not pick up time, call in sick, or essentially do anything else that would keep them from working? I wonder what the percentage of sick use is currently to what it was say two years ago.
Posts: 80
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aa777
Post Captain
Member # 639
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HAWKMAN:
How nice. And they just furloughed 1800 25-45+ year veterans. Perhaps they shouldn't have changed all the locks the night of 7/2/03. They are victims of their own bad karma. They are getting everything they deserve, as this is a mess of their own design.
MRS.HAWKMAN
(furloughed with 17 years)
I guess if you believe in Karma then you got what you deserved.
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HAWKMAN
Post Captain
Member # 2039
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posted
No. That will come when we get our seniority and our jobs back.
FYI from APFA on 7/23/03:
"Crew schedule has notified APFA that they will begin pre-plotting Replacement Flight Attendants for the balance of the month of July per Article 9.D.4.D and I.9.C.4.D. due to manning shortages at most bases...07.23.03
Crew Schedule has notified the APFA that order of open time coverage continues to be up to steps 7, 8, and 9 in most bases due to a lack of reserve coverage and a high volume of sick calls. The steps include Step 7-Regularly scheduled Flight Attendants at the base in reverse order of seniority provided, however, there is no conflict with his/her scheduled duty-free period; Step 8-Reserve Flight Attendants on scheduled duty-free period; and Step 9-Regularly scheduled Flight Attendants on a duty-free period, in reverse order of seniority.
All Flight Attendants should be aware that Crew Schedule may, in accordance with Article 9.L and Article I.9.L, fill open time by contacting Flight Attendants who fall into the above categories. If you are scheduled for a trip no matter the duration, please plan ahead as the Company has been reassigning Flight Attendants regularly. If you are on days off, be aware that crew schedule may call to assign you."
Guess you better pack an extra shirt or two, or three, or four. You should be grateful you have a job.
MRS.HAWKMAN
(Furloughed with 17 years)
[ 07-23-2003, 23:50: Message edited by: HAWKMAN ]
Posts: 248 | From: SRQ
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aa777
Post Captain
Member # 639
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posted
I'm very greatful to be working. And I hope you get recalled as well. I just was responding to a very bitter post that you made. If your view of AA is so negative why would you want to come back? Things are not going to change when you get back. This is American Airlines. If you don't like it now maybe getting furloughed was devine intervention for you. As far as getting your seniority back well I think we only need to look as far as the pilots suit to get an idea of where thats headed.
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aa777
Post Captain
Member # 639
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posted
Ms Hawkman,
If things were so bad for you at AA. Maybe you should consider signing off as FREE after 17 years.
Posts: 60
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HAWKMAN
Post Captain
Member # 2039
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by aa777:
... As far as getting your seniority back well I think we only need to look as far as the pilots suit to get an idea of where thats headed.
WRONG Again. Apples and Oranges. Got your extra shirts ready? Option II greed flying is available.
MRS.HAWKMAN
(Furloughed with 17 years)
[ 07-24-2003, 09:25: Message edited by: HAWKMAN ]
Posts: 248 | From: SRQ
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aa777
Post Captain
Member # 639
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posted
If you had 17 years with TWA then if my calculations are correct, you never witnessed the company making money. TWA lost money the last 17 years it was in business. What were your expectations for the future when the company you worked for never made a profit? With the dramatic downsizing of STL , it is very doubtful that anyone will get called back anytime soon. I wish things were different. Your commments regarding extra shirts being ready really don't impress me. If there is a way to make a little extra money then so be it with Option II. The membership took a major paycut a few months back, if someone wants to pick up a trip to help make up some of that I would hardly call that being greedy. You can throw all the mud you want at us. It must make you feel better about yourself. This forum boasts of the professionalism of the former TWA flight attendants. You MRS HAWKMAN, are the exception to those flight attendants.
Posts: 60
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donuway
Post Captain
Member # 803
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posted
aa777,
I don't know all of the complicated rules of airline seniority, fences, etc., but I have to agree with you about the downsizing of STL. I would think that LLC people would have to go there due to the fence rules. I doubt there will ever be enough AA jobs here again to bring them back. It all kinda fits , if you know what I am getting at.
I read where some analysts have said that rarely do gates remain vacant at abandoned hubs. It's always other carriers that take them however.
And you need to recalculate Mrs. Hawkmans date of hire.
Don
Posts: 414 | From: St. Louis, Mo
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TWAnr
Post Captain
Member # 166
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by aa777:
...if someone wants to pick up a trip to help make up some of that I would hardly call that being greedy.
Just more of the "it is all about me" attitude that is, unfortunately, so prevalent at the unions representing American Airlines' employees.
Real unions strive to protect jobs, not actively campaigning to eliminate them in order to benefit those who are left behind.
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XHNLEIC
Post Captain
Member # 1481
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HAWKMAN:
MRS.HAWKMAN
(Furloughed with 17 years)
Mrs. Hawkman. In no way do I undervalue or disrespect your time with TWA but 17 years is a drop in the bucket compared to most of the people I know with more than 30 years seniority. Many of my agent friends are approaching 35 years (some are still not eligible to retire) but also have been furloughed. At the LAX party there were almost 600 F/A and they were all furloughed. Not one of them came to me and said "Hi, I'm xxx and I am furloughed with 35 years". I think it is very offensive to add that on the end of your posts. Why do you feel that is necessary? Should we all end our posts with the years we served with TWA? Many of us were also furloughed during our tenure with TWA but with far more time than you had.
Your posts are very informative but IMHO you are acting like a spoiled brat by adding that to your signature. It would serve you well to drop it!
Aloha!
Posts: 166 | From: Laughlin/Bullhead City/Honolulu
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aa777
Post Captain
Member # 639
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TWAnr:
quote:
Originally posted by aa777:
...if someone wants to pick up a trip to help make up some of that I would hardly call that being greedy.
Just more of the "it is all about me" attitude that is, unfortunately, so prevalent at the unions representing American Airlines' employees.
Real unions strive to protect jobs, not actively campaigning to eliminate them in order to benefit those who are left behind.
APFA did not actively campaign to eliminate jobs. Manipulating the issues does not help either side here. A judge has already decided that the concessions did not harm the TWA'ers specifically. Its interesting that a group that feels so strongly about being treated so badly turns around and wants to work here so much. If the company I worked for treated me so bad that I had to vent my frustrations on the internet, I would be looking for other options for employment. If you think the attitudes are "all about me" at AA then why do you work so hard to stay attached to AA? Everyone has a choice.
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HAWKMAN
Post Captain
Member # 2039
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by XHNLEIC:
quote:
Originally posted by HAWKMAN:
MRS.HAWKMAN
(Furloughed with 17 years)
Mrs. Hawkman. In no way do I undervalue or disrespect your time with TWA but 17 years is a drop in the bucket compared to most of the people I know with more than 30 years seniority. Many of my agent friends are approaching 35 years (some are still not eligible to retire) but also have been furloughed. At the LAX party there were almost 600 F/A and they were all furloughed. Not one of them came to me and said "Hi, I'm xxx and I am furloughed with 35 years". I think it is very offensive to add that on the end of your posts. Why do you feel that is necessary? Should we all end our posts with the years we served with TWA? Many of us were also furloughed during our tenure with TWA but with far more time than you had.
Your posts are very informative but IMHO you are acting like a spoiled brat by adding that to your signature. It would serve you well to drop it!
Aloha!
I feel it is necessary to remind those that are still flying, taking tickets, taking reservations etc., to remember there were fine people with many more years of service that had their jobs unjustly taken away. In my pad in STL we have a ticket agent with 30+ years losing her job and a res agent with 35+ years losing his job. All while agents with just a few years still working. The mechanic in our pad just made 40 years, and even he is nervous. So, yes, my 17 years is a pittance compared to those that came before me who I respect and admire. Contrary to what some AAers will have you believe, their years, your years, and mine should not be forgotten nor dismissed. I am sorry if you find this concept so offensive.
MRS. HAWKAN
(Furloughed 17 years)
[ 07-24-2003, 12:41: Message edited by: HAWKMAN ]
Posts: 248 | From: SRQ
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Kirkpatrick
Post Captain
Member # 652
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by aa777:
If you had 17 years with TWA then if my calculations are correct, you never witnessed the company making money.
I believe TWA made money either the year of the strike (1986) or the next, not due to Mr. Icahn's brilliance but rather to the huge concessions just made by the unions.
quote:
With the dramatic downsizing of STL , it is very doubtful that anyone will get called back anytime soon.
Posts concerning additional flights being added elsewhere on the system as STL is downsized are all over this and other message boards. Everything I've seen makes it appear AA furloughed too many people. I'd be very surprised if recalls don't come considerably sooner than the company's plan for 2006.
quote:
Your commments regarding extra shirts being ready really don't impress me. If there is a way to make a little extra money then so be it with Option II. The membership took a major paycut a few months back, if someone wants to pick up a trip to help make up some of that I would hardly call that being greedy.
In fact, the company is extending trips and calling reserves out of sequence all over the sytem. It might not be a bad idea for any FA to be prepared by carrying an extra shirt. As for Option II, the APFA message board is jammed with demands that people NOT pick up Option II trips. Without getting into the details of the complicated AA trading system, it's relatively easy to take trips people have posted on Hiboard instead of assisting the company in justifying their poor manpower planning by picking up Option II.
MK
Posts: 192 | From: Massapequa (Long Island) NY
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Kirkpatrick
Post Captain
Member # 652
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by donuway:
I don't know all of the complicated rules of airline seniority, fences, etc., but I have to agree with you about the downsizing of STL. I would think that LLC people would have to go there due to the fence rules. I doubt there will ever be enough AA jobs here again to bring them back. It all kinda fits , if you know what I am getting at.
Seniority rules require that we be brought back to the company in seniority order, not to STL. We'll go to whatever bases have openings, and AA will have to train us.
MK
Posts: 192 | From: Massapequa (Long Island) NY
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Kirkpatrick
Post Captain
Member # 652
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by aa777:
APFA did not actively campaign to eliminate jobs.
APFA chose concessions which resulted in the company requiring 2400 fewer flight attendants. I realize they were trying to lessen the "cash hit" on the majority who were not subject to furlough, and that some furloughs were inevitable, but there were ways the company's goal of 340 million could have been met without such a headcount cut.
You say everyone has a choice: so did APFA.
MK
Posts: 192 | From: Massapequa (Long Island) NY
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Kirkpatrick
Post Captain
Member # 652
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by LATREAL:
This is getting good! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
On the second thought, forget it.
MK
[ 07-24-2003, 14:00: Message edited by: Kirkpatrick ]
Posts: 192 | From: Massapequa (Long Island) NY
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TWAnr
Post Captain
Member # 166
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by aa777:
APFA did not actively campaign to eliminate jobs.
This so called union was given choices and adopted those which eliminated well over 3,000 jobs. A real union would have fought to keep as many of its members employed as possible.
quote:
A judge has already decided that the concessions did not harm the TWA'ers specifically.
The fact that one judge made such a preliminary determination does not settle the issue forever. Her opinion that there was not a high likelihood that the TWA flight attendants will prevail in the long run is only relevant on the issue of whether an injunction should have been issued. The ultimate question of whether John Ward's slick lies will be believed will be up to a jury.
quote:
Its interesting that a group that feels so strongly about being treated so badly turns around and wants to work here so much.
Are you suggesting that we should just accept the injustices that have been bestowed upon us and not fight for what is morally right?
Sorry, that is not what I was raised to believe in.
quote:
If the company I worked for treated me so bad that I had to vent my frustrations on the internet, I would be looking for other options for employment. If you think the attitudes are "all about me" at AA then why do you work so hard to stay attached to AA? Everyone has a choice.
I have no idea if you are old enough to remember the days when our country was torn over the issues of Civil Rights and the Vietnam War.
Those of us who fought to make this a better place for all were opposed by some who responded with the tired slogan: "America Love It or Leave It". I must admit that you remind me of that latter group.
I am familiar with the ranting and ravings of the nAAtives on the APFA boards; yes, there is a lot of discord on the other side of the fence as well. I haven't seen you posting there telling your coworkers that they should quit.
To be absolutely clear, the unions are the ones who are guilty of the majority of the exploitation as opposed to the company. Yes, American Airlines can be a better to work; just look at employee friendly companies like Southwest. However, this is not my main point. Before the company can be taken to task, the unions must represent the interests of all of their members, not only those of the privileged few.
As much as you may wish that we did not exist, we will not simply quit, walk away and fade into the sunset. I will never stop fighting for what is morally right and to undo the wrongs that were inflicted upon my friends.
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Kirkpatrick
Post Captain
Member # 652
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HAWKMAN:
Contrary to what some AAers will have you believe, their years, your years, and mine should not be forgotten nor dismissed. I am sorry if you find this concept so offensive.
I don't find it offensive.
MK (Furloughed with 31 years)
Posts: 192 | From: Massapequa (Long Island) NY
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aa777
Post Captain
Member # 639
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TWAnr:
This so called union was given choices and adopted those which eliminated well over 3,000 jobs. A real union would have fought to keep as many of its members employed as possible.
The Union protected the membership. Had the company declared BK more members would be on the street. APFA acted to save jobs!
quote:
QUOTE]The fact that one judge made such a preliminary determination does not settle the issue forever. Her opinion that there was not a high likelihood that the TWA flight attendants will prevail in the long run is only relevant on the issue of whether an injunction should have been issued. The ultimate question of whether John Ward's slick lies will be believed will be up to a jury.
[/QUOTE]
APFA again acted on behalf of its members (see Reno Suit) TWA was not members of APFA at the time of the purchase. Lets not rehash this one, lets leave this for the judge to rule on.
quote:
Its interesting that a group that feels so strongly about being treated so badly turns around and wants to work here so much.
Are you suggesting that we should just accept the injustices that have been bestowed upon us and not fight for what is morally right?
Sorry, that is not what I was raised to believe in. [/QUOTE]
Regardless of how you were raised things at AA will not change. I am not saying to give up on your plea to replace AA workers. More power to you. You can sue til the cows come home.
quote:
quote:
If the company I worked for treated me so bad that I had to vent my frustrations on the internet, I would be looking for other options for employment. If you think the attitudes are "all about me" at AA then why do you work so hard to stay attached to AA? Everyone has a choice.
I have no idea if you are old enough to remember the days when our country was torn over the issues of Civil Rights and the Vietnam War.
Those of us who fought to make this a better place for all were opposed by some who responded with the tired slogan: "America Love It or Leave It". I must admit that you remind me of that latter group
[/QUOTE]
Spare us the self righteousness! This is about airline seniority.
quote:
I am familiar with the ranting and ravings of the nAAtives on the APFA boards; yes, there is a lot of discord on the other side of the fence as well. I haven't seen you posting there telling your coworkers that they should quit.
I would only tell someone to quit if they posted such venom for the AA'ers like MRS HAWKMAN does. If you dislike the company the union and its members, why would you fight so hard to be a part of it?
quote:
To be absolutely clear, the unions are the ones who are guilty of the majority of the exploitation as opposed to the company. Yes, American Airlines can be a better to work; just look at employee friendly companies like Southwest. However, this is not my main point. Before the company can be taken to task, the unions must represent the interests of all of their members, not only those of the privileged few.
How is the majority now considered the "privileged few"?
quote:
As much as you may wish that we did not exist, we will not simply quit, walk away and fade into the sunset. I will never stop fighting for what is morally right and to undo the wrongs that were inflicted upon my friends. [/QB]
I never stated anything about anyones existence. I salute you on your morals and your loyalties to your friends. As far as the rantings and ravings on the APFA board, you can be sure that there is one thing we all agree on - The TWA seniority issue.
Posts: 60
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TWAnr
Post Captain
Member # 166
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by aa777:
APFA again acted on behalf of its members (see Reno Suit) TWA was not members of APFA at the time of the purchase. Lets not rehash this one, lets leave this for the judge to rule on.
The Reno flight attendants' suit alleged that the APFA did not represent their interests during the time that the seniority issue was still being decided. On that aspect, the court held that the APFA was bound to represent the interests of its then current members as opposed to of those whom it did not yet represent.
This is not the basis for the seniority claim in the TWA flight attendant seniority law suit.
The allegations of the breach of the duty to fairly represent (DFR) the TWA flight attendants arise from the union's conduct and actions after the seniority issue was agreed upon by the company and the APFA and after the APFA became the collective bargaining agent of the TWA LLC flight attendants. From that point on, the DFR law suit alleges, the union had an obligation to represent the interests of the St. Louis based members as vigorously as those of the nAAtives.
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LATREAL
Post Captain
Member # 918
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TWAnr:
quote:
Originally posted by aa777:
APFA again acted on behalf of its members (see Reno Suit) TWA was not members of APFA at the time of the purchase. Lets not rehash this one, lets leave this for the judge to rule on.
The Reno flight attendants' suit alleged that the APFA did not represent their interests during the time that the seniority issue was still being decided. On that aspect, the court held that the APFA was bound to represent the interests of its then current members as opposed to of those whom it did not yet represent.
This is not the basis for the seniority claim in the TWA flight attendant seniority law suit.
The allegations of the breach of the duty to fairly represent (DFR) the TWA flight attendants arise from the union's conduct and actions after the seniority issue was agreed upon by the company and the APFA and after the APFA became the collective bargaining agent of the TWA LLC flight attendants. From that point on, the DFR law suit alleges, the union had an obligation to represent the interests of the St. Louis based members as vigorously as those of the nAAtives.
Are you saying that the suit is not about seniority?
Posts: 67 | From: Washington, DC
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L1011Ret
Post Captain
Member # 1792
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posted
T^here are many suits, at last count 4. Only one is directly about seniority. The others are DFR and Discrimination.
Posts: 416
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aa777
Post Captain
Member # 639
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posted
One of the suits is over the fact that AA crews were flying STL-HNL and STL-LGW. They will sue over anything.
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L1011Ret
Post Captain
Member # 1792
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posted
You should be able to figure that out for yourself without any outside assistance. Even AA attempted to intervene to make it right and they were refused by APFA.
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aa777
Post Captain
Member # 639
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posted
why avoid the question? You can be sure that AA would only intervene when it is cost effective for AA. NOT to make anything right or fair. You seem to jump to both sides of the fence as far as AA is concerned.
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L1011Ret
Post Captain
Member # 1792
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posted
I'll let you get all the information and then you can judge for yourself.
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Kirkpatrick
Post Captain
Member # 652
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by aa777:
why avoid the question? You can be sure that AA would only intervene when it is cost effective for AA. NOT to make anything right or fair. You seem to jump to both sides of the fence as far as AA is concerned.
I don't have the exact details on the STL-HNL,OGG,GTW thing but essentially it's this: AA announced they were dumping the LLC 767-300's earlier than previously planned and offered to train 300 LLCers to fly AA equipment out of STL. APFA balked, citing some garbage about the contract requiring positions at new bases to be offered for bid to all AA people. They went back and forth for a couple of weeks and APFA refused to budge. The end result was the loss of all international flying for TWA people who bumped to domestic, triggering a furlough of junior people.
Of course, we would have ended up furloughed anyway, but none of us believes APFA was fighting for our rights in that case. The flights went to ORD and DFW and saved natives from being bumped to reserve or domestic, and we got axed.
Posts: 192 | From: Massapequa (Long Island) NY
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extwacaptain
Prop Wash
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posted
[ 07-27-2003, 12:26: Message edited by: extwacaptain ]
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aa777
Post Captain
Member # 639
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posted
At the time they decided to retire the TW 767's they also decided to cut back on alot of International flying. By placing AA equip on those routes they just moved the flying around the system as they still do now. Not every base flys their own Intl flights. The trickle down effect of the cuts naturally hit the most junior (STL).
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Kirkpatrick
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posted
It wasn't the placement of AA equipment on those routes which hurt us. It was APFA's refusal to allow us to be trained on AA equipment so we could fly them. The moving of our flights to other bases created new international positions at a time when cutbacks were occurring, saving natives from domestic or reserve.
I realize that every base doesn't necessarily fly all flights that originate at that base. It was the same at TWA. But if, for example, JFK lost 300 international positions, natives at JFK could make the decision to transfer to another base if the JFK flying didn't appeal to them. We never had that choice.
MK
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L1011Ret
Post Captain
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posted
And if I remember correctly, AA was interested in traing TWA F/As to fly International out of STL and went to APFA to make it happen. APFA refused. So they have been Deadheading crews in from DFW and ORD at great expense.
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aa777
Post Captain
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quote:
Originally posted by L1011Ret:
And if I remember correctly, AA was interested in traing TWA F/As to fly International out of STL and went to APFA to make it happen. APFA refused. So they have been Deadheading crews in from DFW and ORD at great expense.
Deadheading must have been cheaper than running the orininal TW767's on the route. Remember APFA has a contract with AA that has to be honored.
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L1011Ret
Post Captain
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No, that was not the problem. APFA refused to let them be trained on AA equipment that was replacing the TWA 767-300s. There is a DFR filed over this and I believe it is a good case.
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