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Author Topic: Non-Rev Saga
Carlsbad Bill
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Member # 1886

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In mid October, we tried to get from SAN-FLL-SAN, through DFW. We left on a Thursday and could only get on the fourth flight to DFW. There we were advised that we wouldn't get on any of the FLL flights as they were heavily overbooked. We went to PBI instead on an almost full bird.

For our return, the FLL-DFW fights were also heavily overbooked, so we were advised to go through STL. We did on another almost full flight and watched three flights STL-SAN depart full without us. We listened to the calls for volunteers to accept $300, dinner, lodging and breakfast for flights other than SAN also. We spent the night at an airport hotel and got the last seats on the second flight out the next day.

This is good news for furloughees. Since when is OCTOBER a heavily traveled month? Also it questions the reasoning behind the flight cuts in STL. STL-SAN flights are reduced from four to one daily. The 'big picture' looks confusing.

Warm wishes,
Bill

Posts: 20 | From: San Diego  |  IP: Logged
donuway
Post Captain
Member # 803

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If you check the "big picture", is there the same amount of departures at FLL, and arrivals at SAN as there were before 11-1? Probably so, just going through DFW and ORD now.

I wonder how many "outstations" had flights cut as a result of STL downsizing. That would tell if they really had to reduce capacity, not what happened in STL.

Don

Posts: 414 | From: St. Louis, Mo  |  IP: Logged
TWA Fan 1
Post Captain
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STL was always a good hub for TWA. As its only mid-continental hub it was obviously well trevelled by O&D and connecting PAX.

Whatever AA's actual motivation for purchasing TWA, at the very least it can be said that an airline which already had two mid-Continental hubs was likely to have trouble integrating a third one into its network when trouble arose.

Of course, trouble came big for AA and they retrenched. They went back to the basics and favored their home bases of DFW and ORD.

I'm not one of those people who believe that AA purchased TWA simply to dissolve it; the amount the money they spent on AA simply doesn't justify that theory.

On the other hand, when faced with a grave airline industry downturn it is not inconcievable that AA decided simply to reduce hub capacity at STL so they could favor their large operations at DFW and ORD.

And it does make business sense to favor hubs with greater O&D traffic, thus reducing the risk of empty planes in a period of unanticipated lower connecting pax demand.

What STL does do for AA is provide them with a safety valve for expansion if their business grows quickly again.

Once the demand expands beyond the point where they can accomodate it in DFW and ORD, they can bring volume back to STL, first by substituting bigger planes for the commuter planes now serving STL and second by reaquiring some of the gates they've given up.

Posts: 400 | From: Brooklyn, NY  |  IP: Logged
Retav8r
Post Captain
Member # 251

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Bill,
I've learned, since retiring, that life is too short to have to sit around airports hoping to get on a flight. I've been to Florida twice this year, once out of SAN and other time out of SNA, and went full fare both times. The cost for the roundtrips, a little over $200. I'd suggest, if you know far enough in advance, to get a cheap full fare or else make sure that the AA flights you want to get on are at least "yellow." Also, SAN is not the best place to non rev from; SNA, ONT and LAX have more flights and chances of getting on are easier. Drive up to LAX night before, stay at Hacienda, and then leave your car there for ten days.
CApt'n Easy in Fallbrook

Posts: 206 | From: San Diego/ San Felipe,Mexico  |  IP: Logged
Carlsbad Bill
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Member # 1886

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I've been buying tickets for many trips, Capt. Easy. LAX trips with a Hacienda layover - one of my first layover hotels in 1968 - excellent idea.
Bill

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Draginitin
Post Captain
Member # 2324

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quote:
This is good news for furloughees.
I guess that's why AA's going to furlough 600-800 more pilots next year.
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L1011Ret
Post Captain
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AA has just announced that there will be 1300 less pilot furloughs than previously announced.
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donuway
Post Captain
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Those two last posts numbers don't add up?? Unless the 600-800 was on top of another number announced.

Lately, I think AA announces whatever they think Wall Street will like, at the appropriate time.

Either that or they can't forcast worth a damn. Have they announced they will be adding flights back to STL? Don't think thats gonna happen.

Don

Posts: 414 | From: St. Louis, Mo  |  IP: Logged
Draginitin
Post Captain
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Not so fast. AA hasn't "announced" anything, John Darrah has. The rumor about 1300 less is smoky speculation. While there might not be "plans" to furlough past the 223 in March 04, furloughes could easily resume in the fall, or earlier, business tempo dependent.

My guess is that the APA is being set up again to negotiate down compensation, this time to Eagle scale on 100 seat airplanes to "save" those future furloughs.

[ 11-08-2003, 23:41: Message edited by: Draginitin ]

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L1011Ret
Post Captain
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I stand corrected, APA has announced the furlough reduction numbers.
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Kenneth
Post Captain
Member # 259

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I was just in FLL on Friday. Tried my darnedest to get a flight on AA, though they wouldn't give me the option - they said USAir's flights were $200 less round-trip ... and Miami wasn't an option, they didn't have someone to pick me up there & didn't want to spring for a car. My USAir flight down was oversold and 1hr late ... and the return trip was oversold. I was squished like a sardine left-right-forward on both flights. I forgot how tight some of those seats are, I've gotten so used to Comfort Class seating.

Ken

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B-757-200
Post Captain
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quote:
Originally posted by L1011Ret:
I stand corrected, APA has announced the furlough reduction numbers.

And AA will be the ONLY major airline STILL furloughing pilots in 2004.

It could actually reach 3000, which is more pilots than every airline in the WORLD currently employs, except UA,DL,NW,US,CO,UPS,FedEx and BA.

Amazing.

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chrispy
Post Captain
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A few things:

STL was a good omni-directional hub-location, location, location, location.
But had some serious ATC capacity issues that prevented it from being an all-weather, efficient hub. A few clouds in the sky, and the airport goes from 60 arrival slots per hour to about 24 (single runway for landing).

As far as being a good O&D airport, No, this is not true for two reasons.
1. St. Louis is not a massive city. Population wise it isnt a Dallas, Chicago, NY, LAX, etc.
2. Secondly, with the encroachment by Southwest, average fares in/out of STL were reduced thereby making this a "barely" profitable hub for TWA prior to the empire purchasing it.


As far as furloughs, anyone in this business that goes on union predictions or rumors especially from J.John should wait till you are actually in recall class before believing that the furloughs are over.

But AMR does have one distinction, the airline with the most furloughess in the world, but still has 2001/2000 new hires ON the property sitting in the seats of employees with more experience.

Dont get mad, get even

Posts: 66 | From: skooners  |  IP: Logged


 
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