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Author Topic: This is way to painful!
Subsonic Transport
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I was outside cooking dinner on the grill and I looked up to see a 747-200 overfly. I ran in to get my binoculars. Couldn't tell who it was so I cranked up the computer and checked flight tracker. Still couldn't determine who it was.

Anyway,I checked Airliners for photos and was looking at Korean Air 747-200's. Check out what I found......it really hurts! Korean Air with TWA

[ 09-29-2003, 11:02: Message edited by: Subsonic Transport ]

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L1011Ret
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I like the picture, but it is a bit sad.
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ss278
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Ouch!
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Life_Platinum
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I thought N306TW was broken up late last year while at Marana. I even remember a picture of some seats that were laying outside the A/C as everything of value was being stripped before she was flattened. This A/C spent a significant part of her career at Marana, first going there before AW began operating her, then again calling Marana home until TW rescued her, and finally ending her career at this location. I remember that KLM, her first owner had an unusual first class configuration with an aisle along the windows on the right side of the A/C. This supposedly posed a problem for TWA, and they took the first class interior from 17105 when she was finally parked at MCI and installed it to give this ship the same First Class configuration as other TW 747s. Once while driving around Santa Barbara, I saw the tail of a TW 747 at the airport which turned out to be N306TW. Evidently TW had farmed out some maintenance on her before she came to mainline service. She was the only 747-200 that received the entire TW new livery, although 17108 and 17128 received the new paint scheme in total.
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gambit3131
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quote:
Originally posted by Life_Platinum:
although 17108 and 17128 received the new paint scheme in total.

I thought 17108 was the only 747 to get the new livery? I had only been at TWA about 4 months before they retired the whole 747 fleet. I may not have been aware of others.

gambit

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Subsonic Transport
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I also thought that 108 was the only ship to receive the new scheme. But when clicking on the large picture with a magnifying glass it looks like 306. Plus the upper deck windows are of the -200 variety. I think someone told me that TWA had some -100's operating with all the upper deck windows as -200's. Is that true?

I think its interesting that the TWA logo has not been removed. Isn't removing or hiding the logo the first thing that's done? Notice how the ailerons are still coordinated for a right turn.

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Life_Platinum
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Re TWA's 747 fleet, 17108 received the new livery in about 1995. Shortly thereafter Jeff Erikson announced that TWA would expand their 747 fleet by 4 aircraft for the summer of 1996. I think that N306TW was already in the fleet and some work had been done on her in preparation for the summer. TWA then leased N128TW which was the first Alitalia 747 called Neil Armstrong, and in her later life had served PeopleXpress, and then CAL before being retired. N129TW was the worst of the 4, having been at Mohave for about 4 years after serving AF. N307TW came from Quantas and was the newest of the bunch. It was the intention to bring these A/C up to TW specs, but time ran out, and they were pressed into service before most had been revamped. As a result, N128TW and N306TW received the new livery, and the other two received less than the full livery (N129TW did not have the red stripe seperating the areas of the fuselage painted white from the areas painted blue, and N307TW was painted white for the longest time). This brought the number of 747s with the complete new livery to 3 (#108, 128, and 306, whereas 129 was missing only the red stripe).
The number of upstairs windows on a 747 cannot be used to distingush a 100 series from a 200 series. For example N303TW and N304TW were 200s with 3 windows, whereas 17119 and 17129 were both 100s and had 12 windows upstairs. Although most 200s had the 12 windows, and 100s the 3 windows, it was where these A/C were in the assembly line. All ships that were produced after #147 had 12 windows whereas those before this # had 3 windows. Some airlines had modifications done to their 747 windows, either covering up many of the windows to leave 3 upstairs as TWA did with 17119, and others had more windows cut out of their oldest 747s.
Hope this helps.

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nyc6035
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quote:
Originally posted by Life_Platinum:
Some airlines had modifications done to their 747 windows, either covering up many of the windows to leave 3 upstairs as TWA did with 17119, and others had more windows cut out of their oldest 747s.
Hope this helps.

This explains why 17119 in reconstruction photos shows 12 windows rather than the 3 we remember when we flew on her while she was in service. [Frown]
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Insp4
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Anyone interested in a TWA 747 crew berth kit? I just happen to have same in my basement!
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Life_Platinum
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My 747 rule (all A/C prior to (1)47) explains why some A/C have 12 while others have 3 windows upstairs. 17119, a 100, was 153rd off the line, and 17306(N306TW), a 200 was 152nd off the line and both had 12 windows. However 17118 was 151st off the line, and I was told by a TW 747 captain that of the original TW 747s only 17119 had the 12 windows. I've looked at the photos of this ship on some web pages but couldn't tell if she had 9 of the windows covered up like her sister ship.
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MrMarky
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quote:
Originally posted by Insp4:
Anyone interested in a TWA 747 crew berth kit? I just happen to have same in my basement!

I don't know what it is, but yes I would like to have it. [Big Grin]
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Insp4
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MR.Marky----This was a crew bed that was mounted in the left hand aft end of the 747 cockpit! It brakes down and stows in it's own blue fiberglass container.The container has a big TWA Twin-Golbes Logo, with the words "TWA 747 Crew berth kit" embosed on it. The bed was used by crew members on long duration flights. I bought it at one of TWA's "Garage Sales" here at MCI just before the take-over.
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upsilon
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Insp4, Why not put it up for sale on eBay? You would be surprised at what it might go for. Branded airline paraphernalia is always a hot item.

[ 10-03-2003, 21:44: Message edited by: upsilon ]

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Retav8r
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Mr. Marky,

I'm not sure why anyone would want this bed; it's somewhat cumbersome and not at all comfortable. Having flown as a pilot on our 747s many times, I can probably count on one hand the amount of times when this bed was used. More often than not, this bed was piled high with cockpit crew luggage; the crews usually found the cabin seats more comfortable and less noisy. I tried it on one flight and didn't care for it as, aside from it's small size, there was always the distraction of cockpit noise along with the inevitable bright sunlight during daytime. Still, this could find use in your home as a bed for guests who sometimes overstay their welcome! [Big Grin]

Capt'n Easy

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MrMarky
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It's sounding less exciting by the minute. Maybe Insp4 could post a picture of it?
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B-757-200
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quote:
Originally posted by Insp4:
I bought it at one of TWA's "Garage Sales" here at MCI just before the take-over.

You mean before the wholesale slaughter and complete annihilation, right?

Out of 22,000 TWA employees (proclaimed to be 'saved') when AA bought us, by November 1st, less than 2000 will be left.

Not exactly a 'takeover', is it?

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donuway
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quote:
Originally posted by B-757-200:
[QUOTE]

Not exactly a 'takeover', is it?

Well,,actually it was. They took TWA over,,,and did as they pleased with it.

Don

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Dick Nicklas
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quote:
Originally posted by Retav8r:
Mr. Marky,

I'm not sure why anyone would want this bed; it's somewhat cumbersome and not at all comfortable. Having flown as a pilot on our 747s many times, I can probably count on one hand the amount of times when this bed was used. More often than not, this bed was piled high with cockpit crew luggage; the crews usually found the cabin seats more comfortable and less noisy. I tried it on one flight and didn't care for it as, aside from it's small size, there was always the distraction of cockpit noise along with the inevitable bright sunlight during daytime. Still, this could find use in your home as a bed for guests who sometimes overstay their welcome! [Big Grin]

Capt'n Easy


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Dick Nicklas
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quote:
Originally posted by Dick Nicklas:
quote:
Originally posted by Retav8r:
Mr. Marky,

I'm not sure why anyone would want this bed; it's somewhat cumbersome and not at all comfortable. Having flown as a pilot on our 747s many times, I can probably count on one hand the amount of times when this bed was used. More often than not, this bed was piled high with cockpit crew luggage; the crews usually found the cabin seats more comfortable and less noisy. I tried it on one flight and didn't care for it as, aside from it's small size, there was always the distraction of cockpit noise along with the inevitable bright sunlight during daytime. Still, this could find use in your home as a bed for guests who sometimes overstay their welcome! [Big Grin]

Capt'n Easy


Re: "The Bed"
I for one can certainly vouch for the comfort provided by the crew bed, particularly when coupled with a considerate crew which kept cockpit noise to a minimum and a pair of TWA F/C eyeshades for daylight flights.

My long overdue thanx to fellow crewmembers and the occasional deadheader who allowed me a few extra minutes (hours?) in the bunk on the return home after a particularly grueling TLV or CDG layover.

My best to all,

Nick

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Retav8r
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Nick,
You must be one of those persons who, like my wife, can fall asleep within one minute, anytime, anywhere! I usually refrained from using the 747 crew bunk as, in addition to my discomfort, I found that active crews were faced with consideration for the pilot trying to sleep, as you've mentioned. Crossings were hard enough without the crew having to sit in stony silence with the cockpit dimmed; a reason many of us chose not to use those bunks. As for those 'grueling layovers in CDG'; I guess we all spent a lot of time at the 'office' with the inevitable followup of dinner accompanied by a lot of grape juice! [Wink] Yeah, those were tough times! I'm sure we all miss them! I have to agree that TLV and CAI weren't easy crossings though, especially when one had to further commute another six hours or so to the west coast to get home. Sleeping in now until at least seven every morning is soooo nice!

Don

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H. B. Pratt
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quote:
Originally posted by Insp4:
Anyone interested in a TWA 747 crew berth kit? I just happen to have same in my basement!

I have someone who might be interested in your 747 crew berth kit. Send me your e-mail address and I will pass it on to him.

Thanks, hpratt8935@aol.com

[ 10-09-2003, 14:55: Message edited by: H. B. Pratt ]

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Tom Girtman
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Nick,

I agree with you that the bunk was great! Most of the IRO's used blankets to make the bunk area private and dark for sleep. In all my TLV flights,I can't remember anyone not taking his rest period in the bunk. Tom

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Subsonic Transport
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All this talk of the crew birth kit has reminded me of a night long ago back when I worked for TWE/Metro in JFK. We were at war with Iraq and security was tight. A TW 747 was parked out at the hard stand across from gate 39 next to taxiway Fox. All my planes had been accounted for so I asked Ino [MOD] if I could go out to the plane and go inside. He said yeah okay.

Of course being a pilot the first place I went was the flight deck. Of course I took the left seat. I got a few minutes of "sim time" that night. I wish I could remember which a/c it was. Just don't remember.

When I got up and turned around to leave I saw the crew birth kit on my right [a/c left]. I seem to recall seeing something blue in addition to the blankets. It didn't look really comfortable but what did I know?

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warthog
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I had a chance to use the 747 crew bunk on a few flights. It unfloded and the end of it came very close to the short bulkhead next to the #2 jumpseat. If you were tall it made your feet or head [ depending on which way you faced] hang over the end near the bulkhead. The noise of the door opening or crew getting loud made the need for ear plugs. The best crew bunk on a 747 by far was the one on some NW "whales". It was a seperate room just behind the #2 jump seat. Its door was outside the cockpit, had two bunks, no window and room to change clothes. On my numerous jumpseat rides between west coast and Philippines I was offered a 1st class seat or bunk out of NRT and took the bunk every time. A five hour ride there in a jump suit after a long Pacific crossing made life plesant. It was delightful. Thanks to all those great NW crews and the trips. I sure hope some to the new guys repay the favors.
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nyc6035
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I ran into this on ebay...in case Mr Marky would still like to see a photo of it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2207869440&category=813

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MrMarky
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Thanks very much for thinking of me Mike.

I can't seem to get your link to work, though.

Good to hear from you.

Take care,

Marky

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mioguido
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quote:
Originally posted by MrMarky:

I can't seem to get your link to work, though.

...get a MAC!
Marky, item on ebay for sale: TWA twin globe 747 berth kit. seller of item: chipshot84
get a MAC [Eek!]

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donuway
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That thing does look kinda cool to have, and it's goin cheap! It does not look very comfortable though.

I wonder if I hauled that into the house if the wife might insist that it would become my permanent bed? [Eek!]

Don

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Subsonic Transport
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I was looking at the ebay pictures and the one where it's set up. I dunno, but it looks like it could have a CG problem.

For one, how heavy is the case that it fits into? I guess it must be heavy enough to outweigh the lack of legs at the opposite end. From the looks of it, it would seem that most of your body weight better be closer to the carrying case.

Or, does the end without legs latch onto a wall therefore eliminating any CG problems?

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Retav8r
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I just dug out my old 747 handbook and couldn't find any reference to this bunk so will rely on memory. The case is made out of a fiberglass composite and I would guess that the total weight doesn't exceed fifty pounds. Best to contact the seller though as he should know. If memory serves me, the bunk hooked onto the aft bulkhead in the cockpit. Others might disagree but my personal experience was that the bunk wasn't that comfortable and, in your home, would be ideal for inlaws and unwelcome guests! [Big Grin]
"Capt'n Easy"

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MrMarky
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OK. This time the Ebay link worked -- thanks for your help Guido.

It looks kinda weird. I guess you'd have to build it onto a wall or something.

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Jetman
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The bunk was almost always used from JFK-TLV and sometimes used from HLC-STL. It was very comfortable, but not very quiet. If you used earplugs and were a bit tired, you could sleep. The time was usually split between the Capt., F/O, F/E and the IRO. at even segments. The Capt. usually got the most desirable segment (the one prior to descent). And the IRO usually got the one at the top of climb (when most every one was still wide awake and ready for dinner) plus he had to "fix" the bunk which was no easy matter, it envolved moving crew luggage, etc. Some IRO's were "masters" at setting up the bunks. The ensueing rest was well received on the JFK-TLV flights.
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TWAnr
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 -

quote:
N605TW Must be pretty much the first 767 to have a booking with the scrapman's axe in North America with the exception of the US Air example that was damaged in PHL. She's seen here, up on blocks and with most usable parts removed, just clinging onto life whilst photographed from a low flying Cessna.

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Subsonic Transport
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This is really a sad set of pictures for me. 605 was the first a/c I flew on out of the country. I flew from JFK to ZRH and back on 605 in first class. I thought the service up front was great. I couldn't figure out what everyone was complaining about.

I arrived in ZRH about 1 week before TWA closed the city. 605 was also the last TWA a/c I flew on.

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Life_Platinum
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I think that N602TW was the first 767 that was broken up, followed shortly by N605TW. It appears that there now are a large number of 767-200s that are in storage including birds from UA, DA, and AA. I suspect that other airlines 767-200s will soon be chopped up as well.

N601TW, N610TW, and N650TW all have found other homes.

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Subsonic Transport
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While poking around Airliners.net I saw a recent photo showing a 747 being broken up so I clicked on it for a larger view. To look at "our" little Nine just sitting there....sniff!

Our Little Nine

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Life_Platinum
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Subsonic Transport: Thanks for the pic--However, I suspect that their is an error in the legend stating that in 1996 this was the first A/C to hit 100,000 hours. There were a number of TW 747s that went over this mark a few years prior. Perhaps this was the first LH or KE 747 that reached this milestone.

Here is my new wallpaper that you might enjoy:


http://airliners.net/open.file?id=306222&WxsIERv=Qm9laW5nIDc0Ny0xMjg%3D&WdsYXMg=VHJhbnMgV29ybGQgQWlybGluZXMgKFRXQSk%3D&QtODMg=TWFyYW5hIC0gUGluYWwgQWlycGFyayAoU2lsdmVyIEJlbGwgQUhQKS AoTVpKKQ%3D%3D&ERDLTkt=VVNBIC0gQXJpem9uYQ%3D%3D&ktODMp=RGVjZW1iZXIgMywgMjAwMg%3D%3D&BP=0&WNEb25u=U2FtIENodWk%3D&xsIERvdWdsY=TjEyOVRX&MgTUQtODMgKE=RXllcyB3aWRlbmluZyByZWFsbHksIEkgZG lkbid0IGtub3cgVFdBIGhhdmUgYSBibHVlIGNvbG9yIHNjaGVtZSBvbiB0aGVpciBCNzQ3LCBhbHNvIHBpY3R1cmVkIDEgTHVmdGhhbnNhIEI3NDIgKEQtQUJaRCksIDEgQWlyIENhbmFkYSBCNzQ3IChDLUdBR0MpLCAxIEFpciBBdGxhbn RhL1NhdWRpYSAoVEYtQVRBKSwgQVRJIERDLTggYW5kIGFtb25nIG90aGVycyB0aGVyZS4gW05pa29uIEQxMDBd&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=NzQ1NQ%3D%3D&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwMi0xMi0zMA%3D%3D&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes

I was in PHX about a month ago and a friend and I drove out to Marana to see how many TWA A/C were still in storage. Even though many TWAers would tell you this was TW's worst A/C N129TW was the only 747 left, probably because it had only about 55,000 hours on the airframe.

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nyc6035
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LP,

I'm personally fond of this aircraft (N31029):

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/002187/M/

..but if it's a 747 in new colors you're after...how about this one:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/201473/M/


Regards,
Mike

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L1011Ret
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In all my years of flying, the L-1011 was the aircraft I loved the most. Though a widebody, I also thought it easy to fly. Comparatively I thought it a piece of cake in a crosswind as opposed to the 747 that I felt I was in a wrestling contest with in a crosswind.
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Life_Platinum
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NYC6035. Here is the history on the TWA 747 you showed us in your post above. I copied it from an Italian web site which has been translated.


Boeing 747
Last modernization: 12-10-2002
Reg. Name Type n/c Year Delivery Cancellation Notes
I-dema Neil Armstrong B747-14á 19729/36 1970 13-05-1970 18-10-1981
Draft of the first 747 Boeing Alitalia. It carried out the first flight the 14-04-1970 and first service of Alitalia line 05-06-1970. The last flight of line with Alitalia was carried out the 18-10-1981 and the 03-11-1981 was given back to the Boeing like N35ÄS. The Boeing before yielded it in leasing to the "The Hawaii Express" (from the 12-08-1982 to the 13-05-83, N35ÄS Jason Everest ) and then to the Flying Tigers (from the 08-06-1983 to the 18-10-1983). Reimmatricolato N603PE passed to the People Express the 27-06-1984 and therefore to the Continental Airlines the 01-02-1987 as a result of the absorption of before from part of the second company. In July 1990 it came reimmatricolato N17010 (Pride of Continental, FN 010). In june 1994 it came set aside to Marana, USA and then to Tucson, AZ in the October of the same year. In 1995 it came reimmatricolato N621FF for the passage to the Tower Air that but not the taken ones in cargo. The 12-07-1996 like N128TW (FN 17128 passed therefore to the TWA) where it remained until the 11-01-1997, given of the last service. Transferred to Marana, USA, in February 1997, have been cancelled 07-04-2000. Dismantled in you open them 2001 to Marana from the BPI Aerospace (reimmatricolato N128BP) with 81.706 hours of flight and 16,148 cycles.

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Les Banks
les banks
Member # 1894

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Ah, the infamous 747 crew bunk. I guess next to Tom Brown, I have had more bunk time and set up time than anyone, having spent the last three years of my career TLV-JFK, a 12-14 hour flight if you could even make it westbound. A good IRO could set up with ten minutes time, half dozen blankets and pillows [padding], four blankets [to enclose, blocking light] and a half dozen swizzle sticks [to affix said blankets to interior skin], and be in his skivies and asleep at gear up. Everyone got to pick sleep schedule by seniority but usually IRO first, rotating the four positions, unless of course one of the cuties in the back talked you out of your turn.
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L1011Ret
Post Captain
Member # 1792

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Brown says you couldn't hold a candle to his ability to construct a great crew rest area in the bunk.
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Insp4
Junior Poster
Member # 811

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Les---- It seems I still have one of your 747 bunkes in my basement! Blue, ablased with the old TWA twin globes, and the words "TWA crew burth kit" on it's side! I beleive there still might be a couple of small pillows in a side compartment also! I picked it up at one of TWA's "garage sales" here at MCI (b.a.a)!!!(Before american airlines!) What for? I don't know!Just saw one other on e-Bay! From MCI also! Don't believe there are too many still arround!
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Subsonic Transport
Post Captain
Member # 2139

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This picture isn't sad. It's actually pretty cool. What I want to know is, where is the camera man standing? Did STL have 3 simultaneous take-offs? Or was he in a de-icing bucket and max elongation? STL departures
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nyc6035
Post Captain
Member # 423

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quote:
Originally posted by Subsonic Transport:
What I want to know is, where is the camera man standing?

It's just a guess...but how about from the second floor window near the spiral staircase at the Ambassadors club between the B amd C concourse?
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