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Author Topic: How many FARs were these pilots in violation of?
Capn Eddie Ricketyback
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That is, if this was a commercial flight, as is claimed.

In any case, a beautiful video, viewed best full-screen at 1080p.

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extwacaptain
Prop Wash
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If indeed this was a commercial flight, hopefully the passengers were informed prior to boarding that there were plans to have another plane join in formation for a “photo op”/”promotion” or whatever, during the course of the flight.

Were this not the case, in my opinion, the “join-up” should never have occurred and in answer to the question:
“How many FARs were these pilots in violation of?” Maybe none,????? however, had I been that Captain, when the phone rang from the chief pilot’s office just minutes after the landing in SFO, my guess would be at least three (3)........(depending on the altitude, maybe four (4).

Please remember, the question asked was: “How many?”....Not which ones. [Wink]


Randy Kramer

[ 10-15-2014, 11:34: Message edited by: extwacaptain ]

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Subsonic Transport
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That's some pretty close formation flying especially near the end. I can't imagine either company would risk millions in assets like that.

On the other hand, it was pretty neat to watch.

A slight deviation here, how many have seen the Cargolux 747-8 departure with the wave off. It was proabably empty except for fuel so not really an issue but it sure looks excessive that low to the ground.

On the other hand, its nice to know that a Boeing can do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnBr3enzW1I

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extwacaptain
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Well, I thought Captain Rawl's topic concerning formation flying involving passenger planes to be rather thought provoking.

Since it is "Question Time" (Only for those who choose to answer)..How many of you, as paying passengers, dead-heading crew-members/employees, would REALLY feel comfortable knowing another plane (flown by someone with unknown skills) would be invited/allowed to deviate from normal separation standards, as demonstrated in the video?

-Was it "COOL"? Oh, Yeah. Probably every teenager on the plane, with or without a camera will be talking about it for days.

Was it "SMART". Remember, I answered Billy's question concerning possible FARs violated. This one's for others to take a shot at. However, having flown a small amount of formation and aware of what could happen, Lindbergh would not have been invited to "join-up" if passengers were on board.

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Capn Eddie Ricketyback
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quote:
Originally posted by extwacaptain:
Well, I thought Captain Rawl's topic concerning formation flying involving passenger planes to be rather thought provoking.

Actually, according to FAR section 91.111:
“Operating near other aircraft. (a) No person may operate an aircraft so close to another aircraft as to create a collision hazard. (b) No person may operate an aircraft in formation flight except by arrangement with the pilot in command of each aircraft in the formation. (c) No person may operate an aircraft, carrying passengers for hire, in formation flight.” So, passengers' permission or not, formation flight carrying passengers for hire is expressly forbidden. I think we can assume, contrary to the info provided with the video, that this was not a passenger flight but a promotional flight, thus apparently it was legal for them to do so. Further investigation reveals that this flight took place in 2011, so this is older news than I thought it was when I posted it.
quote:
Originally posted by extwacaptain:
Since it is "Question Time" (Only for those who choose to answer)..How many of you, as paying passengers, dead-heading crew-members/employees, would REALLY feel comfortable knowing another plane (flown by someone with unknown skills) would be invited/allowed to deviate from normal separation standards, as demonstrated in the video?

Put me down as "No." On second thought, make it, "HELL NO!"
quote:
Originally posted by extwacaptain:
-Was it "COOL"? Oh, Yeah. Probably every teenager on the plane, with or without a camera will be talking about it for days.

Was it "SMART". Remember, I answered Billy's question concerning possible FARs violated. This one's for others to take a shot at. However, having flown a small amount of formation and aware of what could happen, Lindbergh would not have been invited to "join-up" if passengers were on board.

"COOL" but definitely not "SMART."

Personally I enjoyed formation more than any other part of my Pilot Training. I remember one flight where I was solo in a T-Bird flying on the right wing of my instructor, who had a student with him. Feeling pretty frisky, I wanted to show off a little and I tucked my wing in real close. Too close, as our tip tanks overlapped and he broke away. Naturally I was marked down but didn't get a failing grade. He told me that I would have gotten a 4.0 for the flight if I hadn't done that, so he gave me a 3.5.

Who knows, if I hadn't done that maybe my class standing would have been high enough to get a fighter assignment rather than SAC, and if I had gotten a fighter assignment I may not have left the AF for TWA, thus I would not have enjoyed my airline career.

[ 10-17-2014, 08:40: Message edited by: Capn Eddie Ricketyback ]

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